I did. /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />
Just throwing in an equally improbable idea to go with the new techpath. /mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />
Dead stations
To summarise the different ways this could be done:Base is replaced by a completely non-functional object. Probably the easiest way to do that would set the Dead Station to thorium, since nothing builds on thorium (except maybe a GT Research?).Base is replaced by a generic asteroid object. Refs, teles, ops, SYs, garrs and palis could then be built on dead stations.Base is replaced by equilvalent rock object. So a Sup could be built on a dead sup station, etc.Base is replaced by special rock object, which only 'Salvage cons' can build on.Base is replaced by special rock object, which 'Salvage cons' and/or 'Small cons' can build on.
ie define the dead station as Thorium, allow Salvage cons to only build on Thorium; and allow refs, teles and ops to build on generic asteroids and thorium.Edit - Weedman's suggestion - Replace the station with a station that does nothing. 0 scan, can't launch at it, can't dock at it, miners can't offload, can't teleport to it, etc. Has the same effect as #1, but doesn't mess around with turning things into rocks.Edit 2 - StoneRhino's suggestion - Move the station to a 'debris team', then you can "repair" it by docking with a salvage ship - kinda like a HTT.------------------------------------
#3 would require a balance issue - imagine a team that is turtling in its home, you finally manage to force your way through and bomb their techbase - and by the time your pods have been rescued they've rebuilt the techbase on the dead station rock. I imagine that N: Nohome S would be played more often /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />.
Possible balancers:The base starts massively damaged.The base has less total hitpoints than normal.Both of the above.The base's armour class is reduced from normal to light, heavy/tech to normal. (Yeah, galvable techbases!)Have to use a 'Salvage con' to "repair" the dead station, which would return the rock to its pristine state allowing new bases to be built upon it.------------------------------------
Then there's the idea of the Salvage con - what would that do? Which factions would it be available to? What techpath, how expensive? Small or large con? Or two versions, one for refs, teles and ops and one for salvaging anything else?
Maybe it would:Repair the dead station to a pristine rock (as mentioned above).Act as a scavanger - you get money when it builds on a station (removing the station), and it can be used multiple times.Repair the dead station to a live station - and that has a whole host of balance and code issues.Should it be able to repair dead techbases, or just normal bases?If it builds on an enemies adv techbase, do you then have an adv techbase for virtually nothing or should it just be a normal techbase? Similar to the issues in the previous section, how healthy should the new base be when it's built?------------------------------------
If new bases can be built on dead stations - whether they should be new techbases, small cons, or salvage cons - the question is how healthy should the dead station be? I mean, if it's the difference of 1 or 2 abs to deny the enemy the chance of ever rebuilding on the base you just bombed, then who isn't going to stick around and blow up the dead station? It's tactical sense.
But then if everyone blows up all the dead stations, wtf is the point in having them in the first place? /doh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doh:" border="0" alt="doh.gif" />
ie define the dead station as Thorium, allow Salvage cons to only build on Thorium; and allow refs, teles and ops to build on generic asteroids and thorium.Edit - Weedman's suggestion - Replace the station with a station that does nothing. 0 scan, can't launch at it, can't dock at it, miners can't offload, can't teleport to it, etc. Has the same effect as #1, but doesn't mess around with turning things into rocks.Edit 2 - StoneRhino's suggestion - Move the station to a 'debris team', then you can "repair" it by docking with a salvage ship - kinda like a HTT.------------------------------------
#3 would require a balance issue - imagine a team that is turtling in its home, you finally manage to force your way through and bomb their techbase - and by the time your pods have been rescued they've rebuilt the techbase on the dead station rock. I imagine that N: Nohome S would be played more often /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />.
Possible balancers:The base starts massively damaged.The base has less total hitpoints than normal.Both of the above.The base's armour class is reduced from normal to light, heavy/tech to normal. (Yeah, galvable techbases!)Have to use a 'Salvage con' to "repair" the dead station, which would return the rock to its pristine state allowing new bases to be built upon it.------------------------------------
Then there's the idea of the Salvage con - what would that do? Which factions would it be available to? What techpath, how expensive? Small or large con? Or two versions, one for refs, teles and ops and one for salvaging anything else?
Maybe it would:Repair the dead station to a pristine rock (as mentioned above).Act as a scavanger - you get money when it builds on a station (removing the station), and it can be used multiple times.Repair the dead station to a live station - and that has a whole host of balance and code issues.Should it be able to repair dead techbases, or just normal bases?If it builds on an enemies adv techbase, do you then have an adv techbase for virtually nothing or should it just be a normal techbase? Similar to the issues in the previous section, how healthy should the new base be when it's built?------------------------------------
If new bases can be built on dead stations - whether they should be new techbases, small cons, or salvage cons - the question is how healthy should the dead station be? I mean, if it's the difference of 1 or 2 abs to deny the enemy the chance of ever rebuilding on the base you just bombed, then who isn't going to stick around and blow up the dead station? It's tactical sense.
But then if everyone blows up all the dead stations, wtf is the point in having them in the first place? /doh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doh:" border="0" alt="doh.gif" />
Last edited by juckto on Sat Mar 10, 2007 4:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Usually though, "skill" is used to covertly mean "match the game exactly to my level of competence." Anyone who is at all worse than me should fail utterly (and humorously!) and anyone better is clearly too caught up in the game and their opinions shouldn't count.
I also like #4. I think it should come back with 1/2 its max hull and max shields however, but perhaps that can be controlled by the type of salvage con. I also think it would come back, tech level wise, the same as if it were built on a fresh rock. i.e. if you had an advanced sup in the past, it was destroyed, and you built a new one, it would be an advanced sub from the start.
We need the core dev's input here. I'd say all factions should be able to get salvage cons but they should be VERY expensive for non Belter factions (as in more expensive than a tech con for a rock).
The trick is to make it interesting AND viable (such that it is actually used once in a while) but not unbalancing. HODs are neat but almost never seen for example.
We need the core dev's input here. I'd say all factions should be able to get salvage cons but they should be VERY expensive for non Belter factions (as in more expensive than a tech con for a rock).
The trick is to make it interesting AND viable (such that it is actually used once in a while) but not unbalancing. HODs are neat but almost never seen for example.
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-
StoneRhino
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:00 am
i see no real reason any or none couldn't be a selectable option.
also, what about debris from dead ships. maybe once someone gets killed, the burned out hull of their ship continues along it's trajectory untill it eventually hits something or leaves the sector at which point it explodes harmlessly either way.
also, what about debris from dead ships. maybe once someone gets killed, the burned out hull of their ship continues along it's trajectory untill it eventually hits something or leaves the sector at which point it explodes harmlessly either way.
I have begun working on this. The first experiments will simply be to replace the station with a asteroid. It's not working yet /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
I find it rather silly that it's much easier to remove an asteroid if the enemy builds a station on it first. If people want to get rid of the rocks they should have to use sesmics or a lot of effort.
The salvage con is a nice idea, but will require additional code. I would like to have core dev's input on those ideas. The exact effect of the salvage constructor needs to be discussed obviously.
Anguirel? Noir? Hawkwood? Grimmwolf_GB? Pook? DrStrnglv? Weedman? (I think that are all our core developers /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> )
I find it rather silly that it's much easier to remove an asteroid if the enemy builds a station on it first. If people want to get rid of the rocks they should have to use sesmics or a lot of effort.
The salvage con is a nice idea, but will require additional code. I would like to have core dev's input on those ideas. The exact effect of the salvage constructor needs to be discussed obviously.
Anguirel? Noir? Hawkwood? Grimmwolf_GB? Pook? DrStrnglv? Weedman? (I think that are all our core developers /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> )
/Avalanche
Any technology, no matter how primitive, is magic to those that do not understand it. (Mark Stanley, Freefall, 1999)
Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi
12/27/07 20:48:39: <Player in trouble> (all): Run its AVA
Any technology, no matter how primitive, is magic to those that do not understand it. (Mark Stanley, Freefall, 1999)
Quod licet Iovi, non licet bovi
12/27/07 20:48:39: <Player in trouble> (all): Run its AVA