This has always bugged me...

Bard · Post by **Bard** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:23 pm

Bunnywabbit wrote:QUOTE (Bunnywabbit @ Jul 14 2011, 06:54 AM) On the other hand, while I guess laptops are a bit over the top

Laptops in some rural portions of the U.S. are the only option for access to educational materials. We have parts of our country that need the "One Laptop Per Child" system just as badly as parts of Africa do because they'll never see things like an up-to-date public library. I can drive about 8 hours to the south where my grandparents lived most of their life and find a library that hasn't gotten more than a handful of new books since the 1950's and '60. The School libraries are even worse than the public ones. I could probably go half as far northwest and find the same thing, but I don't visit rural MN much.

sambasti · Post by **sambasti** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:45 pm

Bunnywabbit wrote:QUOTE (Bunnywabbit @ Jul 14 2011, 06:54 AM) Honestly, disregarding the crack about the blankets, I can kind of see where you're coming from. It's a fascinating dilemma.

Being from a country with a colonial past, which has also made about a gazillion bucks in the - ahem - African Labour business, we carry a lot of moral debt around. On the one hand, we as a society still reap the profits from those crimes - our ancestors bought a lot of cool stuff with it that we still have and show to tourists in return for money. On the other, as you mentioned, you don't throw a son in jail for the crimes of his father. But you do make him pay his dad's debts if he accepts his inheritance, and you know what: I did accept the inheritance.

Meanwhile it can be a huge series of facepalms to see goverments handle a budget that's too big for them. Yeah, people are stupid, goverments are mostly stupid, and people and governments with too much cash on hand have their stupidity unchecked by financial realities. I have no trouble at all imagining the kind of idiocy governments and municipalities can come up with, when they have an oversized budget due to reparations that are in themselves, ethically necessary. But I'm sure it can be painful to watch up close.

However, if you get hit by a car, and succesfully sue the driver for a 100k, you are morally entitled to that money, even if you decide to blow it all on cocaine and underage prostitutes. How you spend the cash doesn't change the fact that you're entitled to it. Nor are you required to forgive the driver, or be grateful for the money. You can be a total son of a bitch to him for the rest of your life, and he still has to pay you.

On the other hand, while I guess laptops are a bit over the top, what struck me isn't the extreme luxury of the accomodations. I think that having a nice school bus is a pretty good idea. Shouldn't state of the art equiptment be standard throughout the US? Also, having free school supplies and lunches makes sense to me; especially given the kind of crap kids get sent from home with these days. Free ambulances sound good and proper to me too - part of any decent health care system.

I can get that you felt discriminated against, but i can see the sense of excluding you. Otherwise the reservation would be overrun by Americans hoping to lead the good life there, and how would that be for a double $#@! you!

Also, how pathetic is it that that is something that would probably happen. I can't think of a better reason to overcome your aversion to socialism and re-evaluate the US education and healthcare system. But that is perhaps for another day.

Meanwhile, congratulations. You are one of the few white, male, able-bodied (assumably) heterosexuals (probably) who have been afforded the life deepening experience of having been discriminated against. Lucky you.

You could turn that into a sense of victimization ('yeah, well I've been discriminated against too, so $#@! everybody else') or you could turn the experience into a deepened empathy with those who can't escape bigotry by driving across a reservation border.

I feel like this sums it up best. America $#@!ed up 300 years ago. No matter what it does now, someone is getting screwed.

Vanaka · Post by **Vanaka** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:11 pm

DonKarnage wrote:QUOTE (DonKarnage @ Jul 14 2011, 05:28 AM) Oh, a thousand apologies, I'm clearly flawed in my train of thought that it's unfair that they get everything, and my family who has been here for 5-6 generations get's squat.
But, you know, I've heard so much pro-native american talk that it really just gets tiring, and naturally, anyone who objects to it causes an immediate uproar from people who probably aren't any better educated on the matter either.

Why do I need to take a college class to understand why they're still getting handouts because of some disease-ridden blankets that got passed out several hundred years ago?
They're welcome to join the rest of society and make themselves productive citizens, but many just prefer to sit out on the Rez and get along not having to do anything at all, and are often just as well off or better than those who chose to make something of their lives the hard way.

Sorry to sound so insensitive, but none of the current native descendants have suffered much of anything, they basically take these reparations for granted from what I saw on a day by day basis.
For many, they had a "I don't really care what happened, lol, I'm just glad to be getting free money and tax breaks" state of mind.

Again, so terribly sorry for being dense and ignorant as $#@!, I guess it runs in the family

Dang, I was trying to be nice.

But your just a dick whining about how the world isn't fair. This isn't news. STFU.

DonKarnage · Post by **DonKarnage** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:46 pm

Great, now I'm a dense whiny ignorant dick.
That's fine, I'll just suck it up as the natives continue to shove their monthly check in my face and brag about it as me and my family bust their $#@!ing asses just to make ends meet

btw I had no problem with your post, Vanaka, it was more insightful than insulting.

Axel Kolle · Post by **Axel Kolle** » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:18 pm

Same way german money time and time again pays for israeli demands after once again the media harp on the collective, unerasable guilt any true german should feel into all eternity before the demands for aid come.

Still, being given blankets recycled from plague victims to help the guys through the winter was kinda nasty, but eventually someone has to say enough of this. Like get a life and move on. That was how many generations ago?

But it might not happen for a good long time, or at least not until the federal deficit actually ever has to be paid back. When there is no money to be generous, generosity dies, as do those who come between you, your gun and your dinner.

raumvogel · Post by **raumvogel** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:18 am

Duckie...eloquent as ever!

I could post a wall of pics on this subject, so I will.

When is it my turn to receive reparations?
You should sue..borrow some money and get a lawyer.
It's a dog eat dog world and your wearing bacon pants.
I've been passed over and pushed out of a few positions because of "affirmative action". I chalk it up to "we are all human...capable of prejudice no matter what race, creed, color, sex or religion (or lack there of). (oh noes, now everyone knows I'm a honky!)
The torch is now passed from Girly to DK.

And finally the pic that we've all come to know and love. Reproduced for occasions just like this.

Makida · Post by **Makida** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 5:44 am

Poor people are only poor because they're stupid. Things that happened in the past were a long time ago and therefore are not relevant in any way to the present, and no-one should care or do anything about them. It's all someone else's fault and no-one should have to take responsibility for anything.

There, I think we are now all on the same page.

Adept · Post by **Adept** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:35 am

girlyboy wrote:QUOTE (girlyboy @ Jul 15 2011, 08:44 AM) Poor people are only poor because they're stupid. Things that happened in the past were a long time ago and therefore are not relevant in any way to the present, and no-one should care or do anything about them. It's all someone else's fault and no-one should have to take responsibility for anything.

There, I think we are now all on the same page.

Nice.

notjarvis · Post by **notjarvis** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 8:35 am

Edit:

I guess a bit of explanation is needed

DonKarnage wrote:QUOTE (DonKarnage @ Jul 13 2011, 07:08 AM) Back when I was younger, still in gradeschool, I had the misfortune of being stuck in a native american reservation for 3 years while my family was trying to get a motel sold.

I guess I was just jealous, but it seemed a bit unfair.........

Seriously dude, if your sense of unfairness is eating you up so much years after the event that you need to whine about it on a completely unconnected internet forum, you really need to chill out some.

Tons of unfair things happen in life, some caused by circumstance, some caused by government, some caused by corporations, or your fellow man - or mother$#@!ing Investment banks screwing everyone's economy. Whining about it, as it seems you are doing, makes it appear like it still bothers you immensely, and your pretty screwed up about things which have little bearing on your life now whilst what you should be doing is moving on and making the best of it.

If it really bothers you do something about it - contact your local politician, support politicians who agree with you etc.

The above advice goes for practically everything in life. Whining about the unfairness of it all is pointless. Do something about it or let it go is my philosophy, pent up anger is particularly pointless.

tl;dr - look at the picture.

MrChaos · Post by **MrChaos** » Fri Jul 15, 2011 12:10 pm

Ffs

Here is a guy who has lived in a situation you have never experienced and you ass-u-me you can boil it down to he = stupid while eating your bowl of coo coo puffs. You bring your misconceptions, bias, prejudices with you while doing it and call him out on his own. The irony could build a battle ship.