Great article on Michele Bachmann

Bard · Post by **Bard** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:35 pm

Icky wrote:QUOTE (Icky @ Jun 30 2011, 07:07 AM) Nice, Bard. It also points out the inherent hypocrisy in the Republican platform.

"We need to appease the religious right, so let's block gay marriage everywhere we can and try to crush Planned Parenthood and control abortion more!"

"We need to appease the tea baggers so let's preach small government and give tax breaks to the wealthy while cutting services!"

How can you claim to be for small government when you are expanding governmental powers to two of the most private places a person has - their bedroom and in their doctor's office? We have folks like Bachman trying to tell doctors how they need to counsel pregnant women, which is profoundly disturbing.

Did you hear about the law the Republicans are trying to pass in some or another backwoods state that declares any time a woman miscarries it should be treated as murder?

I'll dig up the link later.

takingarms1 · Post by **takingarms1** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:08 pm

Both sides are populated by idiots. Both sides have their crazy fanatics that want to limit our freedoms and expand their pet government programs. You've pointed out some of the crazy religious right ideas, so I'll reply with the crazy liberal ideas like cap and trade, publically funded health care programs that provide better coverage for citizens who don't have jobs than privately funded plans do, and idiotic wasteful spending programs like federal education programs that focus on kids' diets.

Now I could vote for real democrats. I thought those were the ones who were supposed to be for peace and not war, yet the guy in office has done little to end the two wars we're currently engaged in and has signed us up for a third. I thought democrats were supposed to be the pro-regulation, anti-business types who would pass stringent laws to keep wall street in check, yet the guy in office hasn't done a damned thing worth mentioning when it comes to regulating the problem that tanked our economy in the first place.

So instead I'm left with choosing between the pro-business, pro-war, anti-tax republican and the pro-business, pro-war, pro-tax democrat. If I'm going to have to vote for an idiot who's bankrupting the country and making stupid foreign policy decisions, I'm at least going to vote for the guy who gives me a tax break.

Unless the nominee is Bachman, in which case, Obama 2012 please.

Bard · Post by **Bard** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:26 pm

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jun 30 2011, 12:08 PM) Both sides are populated by idiots. Both sides have their crazy fanatics that want to limit our freedoms and expand their pet government programs.

Ohhh yes.

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jun 30 2011, 12:08 PM) cap and trade

Hate it. Horrible idea for many reasons. A complete clusterfsck.

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jun 30 2011, 12:08 PM) publically funded health care programs that provide better coverage for citizens who don't have jobs than privately funded plans do

Whaaa?!? Got any hard data to back that one up?

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jun 30 2011, 12:08 PM) and idiotic wasteful spending programs like federal education programs that focus on kids' diets.

Schools are already blowing tons of taxpayer dollars hiring catering/foodservice companies to cook school lunches instead of having in-house lunchladies like they used to when you and I were in school. One part of these programs is to curtail some of the bull@#(! that's currently going on. I'm *for* that part. I'm *not* so keen on the "OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN" anti-obesity micromanagement. Especially when it involves things like banning bagged lunches. >.<

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jun 30 2011, 12:08 PM) Now I could vote for real democrats. I thought those were the ones who were supposed to be for peace and not war, yet the guy in office has done little to end the two wars we're currently engaged in and has signed us up for a third.

Yup. This is one of my major problems with him. That and the fact that he seems unwilling to grow a pair of testicles and fight against the current"we're taking our toys out of the sandbox and GOING HOME!" tactic the current crop of house/senate folks are using lately. He *should* say (to anyone who pulls it) "If you're going to refuse to actually do your jobs by voting on bills, I'm not paying you because you're effectively on strike. You get your pay and health coverage back when you start sitting on the floor and voting 'yeah' or 'nay' again.."

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jun 30 2011, 12:08 PM) I thought democrats were supposed to be the pro-regulation, anti-business types who would pass stringent laws to keep wall street in check, yet the guy in office hasn't done a damned thing worth mentioning when it comes to regulating the problem that tanked our economy in the first place.

Another of my major problems with him that goes back to his apparent lack of testicular fortitude on some issues.

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jun 30 2011, 12:08 PM) So instead I'm left with choosing between the pro-business, pro-war, anti-tax republican and the pro-business, pro-war, pro-tax democrat. If I'm going to have to vote for an idiot who's bankrupting the country and making stupid foreign policy decisions, I'm at least going to vote for the guy who gives me a tax break.

I *so* feel your pain.

I'd argue, however, that the republicans are pro-tax too, they just tax to fund THEIR ideals instead of the ideals of the Democrats and they spend so much time chanting "democrats tax, we don't" that most people start to believe it without looking at the actual numbers and realizing they BOTH tax a metric $#@!ton and then blow most of it on stupid @#(! or use it to pat the backs of their campaign donators.

takingarms1 · Post by **takingarms1** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:08 pm

Arg its all true!

On the health care issue, in Massachusetts we have MassHealth. If you qualify, it's a great deal. No copays. Just about everything is covered. I have heard stories of people who decided not to take raises or go for jobs that paid them just a bit more because they might lose MassHealth coverage, and the private care options were so much worse that it would be much worse for their family to go that route. I don't blame them, as I'd do the same if I were in their shoes. But it does create a rather serious disincentive to try to get out poverty through hard work, and it's a seriously expensive program.

Sindertone · Post by **Sindertone** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:17 pm

When I first heard about cap a and trade I did some research. I was horrified. I am what most consider liberal and I don't see cap and trade as a liberal idea. One of the authors is conservative. The idea of buying carbon credits from a nuke plant and selling them to a coal plant does nothing for the environment. It just shifts money around.

PS Bachman is a idiot fool. I did not think someone worse that Palin would arise. Despite Bachman's speaking ability, she cannot comprehend sixth grade english.

Broodwich · Post by **Broodwich** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:52 pm

why does everyone think that being an idiot means they wont get elected? Anyone looked at our congress members? our previous president?

hell ryj could get elected president if he was in tight with oil companies

Bard · Post by **Bard** » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:47 pm

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jun 30 2011, 02:08 PM) Arg its all true!

On the health care issue, in Massachusetts we have MassHealth. If you qualify, it's a great deal. No copays. Just about everything is covered. I have heard stories of people who decided not to take raises or go for jobs that paid them just a bit more because they might lose MassHealth coverage, and the private care options were so much worse that it would be much worse for their family to go that route. I don't blame them, as I'd do the same if I were in their shoes. But it does create a rather serious disincentive to try to get out poverty through hard work, and it's a seriously expensive program.

Wow. That's UP. I'm truly surprised that my lawyer friend in Boston hasn't railed against that on another board I visit. He *hates* things that incur government deficit.

Is that a Romney legacy item?

Icky · Post by **Icky** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:03 am

This is why we need true universal healthcare. Limits and loopholes just promote gaming the system. If there WERE no system, it could be a lot more efficient.

And before anyone talks about Medicare/Medicaid, I work with their data and they are surprisingly efficient, especially when compared to other major insurers we work with.

Bard · Post by **Bard** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:10 am

Icky wrote:QUOTE (Icky @ Jun 30 2011, 07:03 PM) This is why we need true universal healthcare.

I agree. Currently we have SOME OF THE WORST HEALTHCARE IN THE WORLD and we PAY MORE THAN ALMOST ANYONE ELSE FOR IT. (This is fact. Google can show you cold, hard, factual numbers that rank the U.S. against other countries in almost any dataset you want to look at. They all say the same thing. We're being ripped off. Go look it up.)

The Insurance and Pharmaceutical cartels need to be drug out back and "pruned". The way they work now is simply highway robbery.

spideycw · Post by **spideycw** » Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:58 am

This year will be another time for us with no good election prospects. I never thought I would say I regretted voting for Obama but I certainly do now and no one competent is on the horizon to replace him