TF and Dreg int scale

[Adept]

QUOTE (NightRychune @ Feb 14 2011, 08:29 PM) the difference in fuel between figs and ints isn't that large, and in terms of paperdoll numbers figs actually have higher acceleration than ints do, even under full load

Interesting. I disagree on both cases, but I'd love to hear how you figure that.

Fig fuel 8 / 12 / 14
Int fuel 12 / 15 / 15

Fig core mass is 36 to the interceptor's 20, with more equipment on the fig. That 8s on the starting figs is particularily painful.

QUOTE (NightRychune @ Feb 14 2011, 08:29 PM) it's also worth noting that every fig (except belters) has a .5 lateral thrust modifier which makes them much, much easier to hit in any circumstance

I've also noted that. Upping that to 0.75 is worth looking at.

[NightRychune]

Figs have 900 thrust to their 36 mass, compared to ints with 300 to their 20. Under full load, your average int has an accel of 12, 15 while empty and a top boost speed of ~300mps.

Figs, on the other hand, have 25 accel when empty, 15 accel with 3 gats, booster, CM, two racks of dumbfires, and two racks of fuel/ammo, but only have a top boost speed of 200mps which gives them really @#(!ty boost performance on top of the significant difference in fuel numbers. The cruise speed performance doesn't matter much overall - it's the boosting that makes more of a difference in combat performance than anything.

Basic figs (basic fig fuel is stupid at 8 and should be 10) vs. lt ints the fuel difference is pretty big, yeah, but it's not as huge between enh figs/ints and adv figs/hvy ints.

By lowering fig thrust you can improve their boost performance, and tweaking their mass number to keep their acceleration roughly the same will give you a pretty big net performance increase. I ran a quick test to perform with enhanced figs at 20 mass, 440 thrust (don't think this is the sweet spot for these numbers), 12 accel under full load, paperdoll top boost speed of 305 and peaked at 250mps after launch before fuel reloaded with a very noticeable lag time on doing a 180 and boosting. Significantly better handling than the 900:36 model that's used now. Unchanged int, paperdoll boost speed of 320, hit 291 from boosting upon launch before a fuel reload. Both were done with an IC enh fig/IC basic int. This just gives you a rough idea of what can be done with tweaking those numbers.

[Adept]

I've actually been testing pretty much just that over the last month.

Incidentally the base accel of figs is indeed better than that of ints, but the boosting acceleration is still much worse, which is really what counts usually. Still, this is really interesting thing to be looking at.

[NightRychune]

With a better performance model there what we'd end up with is figs that are more fun to fly that don't get utterly crushed by ints so easily, and we'd be able to get rid of all the other little adjustments (mostly the scale reductions) made to try and even the playing field.

What I'm considering at this point is converting light booster to cruise boosters and using three tiers of cruise boosters (which have a longer burn time and a pretty good top speed, but don't pick up as fast) exclusively for fighters, while standard boosters get shifted to Exp for use for interceptors, which gives Exp more to spend money on (I'd shift them over and give them a $5k pricetag for Exp). Figs, combined with carrier deployment, would have a better combat performance over longer ranges while Interceptors would still have their overall superior combat presence on target point offense and defense at the short ranges they can take advantage of with superior short-term speed. It'd also resolve the standing problem of figs not being able to run down/deal with scouts that are being obnoxious, and fig lateral thrust modifiers wouldn't need to be changed at all.

[Adept]

QUOTE (NightRychune @ Feb 14 2011, 10:35 PM) With a better performance model there what we'd end up with is figs that are more fun to fly that don't get utterly crushed by ints so easily, and we'd be able to get rid of all the other little adjustments (mostly the scale reductions) made to try and even the playing field.

I'm with you completely. This is what spunky and me in particularily have been looking at in the dimly lit cc lobby. I personally haven't wanted to post anything half-baked here before testing it thoroughly, but we're pretty close to done I think.

The fighter scale is definitely something that IMO should go back to what it was before, when the ships move less like pregnant yanks

[Drizzo]

QUOTE (Adept @ Feb 14 2011, 12:39 PM) As it is though, sup isn't much fun to fly with it's crappy acceleration and limited fuel, nor is it very powerful even in squad games were voobish farting around shouldn't be such an issue.

Am I the only one that remembers that SysX built their entire 2008 year on playing belters sup and that was spidey's main faction choice for elevating them to the top?

[Adept]

One can definitely win with sup, but it's not much fun to fly.

[Broodwich]

QUOTE (Adept @ Feb 14 2011, 01:12 PM) One can definitely win with sup, but it's not much fun to fly.

and here are his intentions, clear as day. lets make a techpath so overpowered that any retard can stand a chance against a good int pilot without using any of the tools that it has, without fighting differently, ignoring the innate differences that actually MAKE sup different from exp, and lets just have a bunch of idiots flying around in stealthinterceptorfighters so nobody has to think about what ship they are fighting in

[Death3D]

IIRC Belts multitech. (esp suptical)

Edit: Which incidentally, have 1.0 sidethrust figs. Of course, lower acceleration (because of higher mass), but I'm willing to bet that they 1.0 sidethrust at 1.15 top speed performs better (maybe even on acceleration!) than 0.5 sidethrust on 1.0 top speed (and no extra mass). Needs testing.

Edit#2: also no surprise why everyone hates belts exp but seem sort of OK with sup. Care to guess? Belts ints have 1.0 sidethrust like any other int. No compensation unlike for the figs.

[Icky]

QUOTE (Death3D @ Feb 14 2011, 04:26 PM) IIRC Belts multitech. (esp suptical)

Edit: Which incidentally, have 1.0 sidethrust figs. Of course, lower acceleration (because of higher mass), but I'm willing to bet that they 1.0 sidethrust at 1.15 top speed performs better (maybe even on acceleration!) than 0.5 sidethrust on 1.0 top speed (and no extra mass). Needs testing.

Edit#2: also no surprise why everyone hates belts exp but seem sort of OK with sup. Care to guess? Belts ints have 1.0 sidethrust like any other int. No compensation unlike for the figs.

If they had over 1.0 sidethrust, where would the extra thrust come from?