Really

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:46 pm

That's the thing though, you can't use them for any core (but DN) without violating someone's copyright.

Here's another example; If I were to create a tutorial with remote links to my images and then someone in the community took my pictures and hosted them on FreeAllegiance, are those pictures now owned by FreeAllegianceInc or are they still owned by me?

Post by **BlackViper** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:52 pm

Please read the ToS #7 Orion, by uploading to us you grant FAO the right to use as they wish.

And no where in all my conversations with Noir, nowhere on this board, does Noir show a copyright.

Grimmwolf_GB · Post by **Grimmwolf_GB** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:59 pm

Orion wrote:QUOTE (Orion @ Oct 23 2006, 07:46 PM) That's the thing though, you can't use them for any core (but DN) without violating someone's copyright.

Here's another example; If I were to create a tutorial with remote links to my images and then someone in the community took my pictures and hosted them on FreeAllegiance, are those pictures now owned by FreeAllegianceInc or are they still owned by me?

He is not allowed to upload them here, because he does not have the rights to the images.

Paradigm2 · Post by **Paradigm2** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:59 pm

I don't think any of us are patent lawyers here, but in my sophomore level buisness law class /mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" /> we learned that you don't necessarily need to state a copyright for it to exist, and that agreements that revoke copyrights are not necessarily valid.

I don't know how it works in this case, but i'd guess that Noir has some rights to his models/artwork/storyline that he created for Pheonix, but probably not for the statistical "values" in ICE that he is using.

Post by **Papsmear** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:00 pm

I think this whole thing sux
These guys have been around for years and have been lots of fun to play with and chat with.

For the record I say re-instate them!

takingarms1 · Post by **takingarms1** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:22 pm

I think anybody who threatens legal action against the host of a free game is a bit silly, and might want to consider growing up. I don't blame the admins for responding with a perma-ban though, litigation is expensive and scary and any crazy person with money can hire an attorney and file one.

madpeople · Post by **madpeople** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:56 pm

in allegiance we dont deal with copyrights, we deal with respect.

when noir says you cant have it because of copyright
people dont copy it because of respect

i feel all legal points are pointless, we do things because of respect, not because of someone legal standing.

if someone says dont copy, we dont because of respect
if someone says remove something from your sig, we do so because of respect
if someone says please remove somethnig i said, we do because of respect.

ok, we also try to avoid getting sued.

QUOTE I think anybody who threatens legal action against the host of a free game is a bit silly[/quote]
good point
what do people expect to acchieve by suing a entity that basically has no money.

of someone shuts down freeallegiance.org

we just take our code, and start a new organisation at freerallegiance.org or something

we have no staff to fire, we have no assets to desolve (well servers, but its not hard to get new ones)

Clay_Pigeon · Post by **Clay_Pigeon** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:33 pm

QUOTE For any of your Content that is not a Derivative Content, you hereby exclusively grant and irrevocably assign to our licensors and us all rights of any kind or nature throughout the universe to such Content (including all ancillary and subsidiary rights thereto which include, without limitation, merchandising and interactive media rights) in any languages and media now known or not currently known. To the extent that any of the rights assigned herein cannot presently be assigned under applicable law, you hereby exclusively grant to our licensors and us a universal, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicenseable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise all rights of any kind or nature associated with your Content, and all ancillary and subsidiary rights thereto, in any languages and media now known or not currently known. You hereby appoint our licensors and us as your attorney-in-fact, which appointment is coupled with an interest and is irrevocable, to act on your behalf (either jointly or separately) and to execute, deliver, record and file such documents necessary to document, perfect, protect and enforce the rights granted to both our licensors and us under this Agreement.[/quote]

IANAL, but the language of section 7 is extremely broad, and would likely imply (unless invalidated in court) that Noir signed over any rights that he has when he put those models on AU. In essence, if "FAO" decided to use his models in another faction, Noir would have no legal recourse. The same goes for the people who made Effix, Dreg, GT, etc.

Now Noir licensed those models from somewhere else, and those people may have legal recourse if they weren't happy with how those models were being used....or not. It depends on the terms of Noir's agreement with the model creators. The TOS seems to state, though, that anything Noir could do with the models, FAO could also do with the models. Any incompatibilities between the agreements would likely be hammered out between lawyers via settlement or in court....and that's a process where everyone loses (except the lawyers).

So I think madp's post about respect is especially relevant. One could argue that the proliferation of litigation and legalese is partially due to the eroding of respect as a social currency in our modern culture (vs decades past)...and likewise its presence (or absence) the world around us contributes greatly to our quality of life (or lackthereof). We have a choice to live in a community dominated by respect, or to live in a community dominated by pages upon pages labyrinthine legal discourse. As a teacher, I spend enough time dwelling in the latter. On alleg, I'd rather spend some time in the former.

So even though I strongly suspect that all of the wrangling over Effix whatever is pointless (because of the TOS), it is wise to respect the reasonable wishes of those who claim creative ownership over the material. Doing so helps create a more pleasant environment for us to play in.

-T

Ozricosis · Post by **Ozricosis** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:16 pm

Wanna hear something funny?

Maybe if you arguing fools spent more time playing the game instead of bitching about it in the forums I could pod you with more regularity!

STFU and read what the topic is about. OR GO BACK TO WORK! SLACKERS

Clay_Pigeon · Post by **Clay_Pigeon** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 11:46 pm

Alleg Forums: The only place my KB will break 35