Allegiance Under WINE (or similar)

Archangelus · Post by **Archangelus** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:28 am

OK guys, I dont know if I am correct, never tried any variants of linux, but if u wanna try a shot, try the KURUMIN, version of it. Works very similar to windows from what IÂ´ve seen.I just dont know if it has an english version.It runs directly from the CD.

factoid · Post by **factoid** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:07 am

Technical Wonder wrote:QUOTE (Technical Wonder @ Jan 21 2008, 09:30 PM) first good idea I've seen all day.

I haven't sunk a lot of time thinking about it, but off hand, I can't think of anything that permits the level of protection ASGS affords without requiring 'unreasonable' levels of RL information to verify idenity. I'd back the development of something 'open' and 'better', but I'm not convinced such a thing exists. So as it stands I'm greatful for what Pook's written, and I don't care that the keys to the kingdom are in the hands of a select few.

Grimmwolf_GB · Post by **Grimmwolf_GB** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 8:14 am

Dogbones wrote:QUOTE (Dogbones @ Jan 22 2008, 03:29 AM) Wine seems perpetually stuck in 'beta' as they have yet to release a 1.x.x version. But if it works for your particular app more power to 'em.

Just because there is no 1 in front does not mean it is beta. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Post by **BackTrak** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:43 pm

factoid wrote:QUOTE (factoid @ Jan 21 2008, 11:07 PM) I haven't sunk a lot of time thinking about it, but off hand, I can't think of anything that permits the level of protection ASGS affords without requiring 'unreasonable' levels of RL information to verify idenity. I'd back the development of something 'open' and 'better', but I'm not convinced such a thing exists. So as it stands I'm greatful for what Pook's written, and I don't care that the keys to the kingdom are in the hands of a select few.

I was thinking a potential alternate system could include a return of the fz/az such that it would cost a one time $5 fee to get a certificate to log into the az to play the main game. The certificate could then be invalidated / bannable. If the certificate were based on paypal with verified payment address then you would have a lock on the user's info. I also see this as a barrier to new players which we don't need.

I think Pook's current solution is both proven and working. If it were upgraded to a current version of .Net (which is in process and to be delievered shortly, AFAIK) would there be any other reason to move away from ASGS?

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:45 pm

factoid wrote:QUOTE (factoid @ Jan 21 2008, 11:07 PM) I haven't sunk a lot of time thinking about it, but off hand, I can't think of anything that permits the level of protection ASGS affords without requiring 'unreasonable' levels of RL information to verify idenity. I'd back the development of something 'open' and 'better', but I'm not convinced such a thing exists.

At the very least, a program with the same capabilities with fewer compatibility and speed issues could be written in C++.. at the very best, the ideal, if it could be (somehow) integrated into Allegiance itself now that we have the source code. The first idea, like ASGS, would actually better since ASGS can be 'decompiled' to a greater degree than something written in C++. I have no idea how the second would work, if it could work, since the source would have to be disclosed (and modified, and security features bypassed, aka a bad thing), but combining it with a small external background program which runs when allegiance runs to ensure that the executable is the proper version/size/hash, could solve that issue as well.

factoid · Post by **factoid** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 3:45 pm

Don't know if that's compatible with MS's terms. Plus, given that we are a 'free and open' game, that creates some unusually high barriers to entry (It's not the expense involved, but the administrative hassle and complexity). But I would agree otherwise with the core idea.

sgt_baker · Post by **sgt_baker** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:04 pm

In my experience Alleg and wine don't mix. For starters you end up saying @#(! you'll regret in the morning, then you spill a frikking glass of the stuff into your Â£100 joystick, rendering the bugger impotent. ^Â£$%&Â£*&^%

/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

Post by **BackTrak** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:10 pm

If you are only concerned with validating that the executable is unmodified, it's pretty easy to sign the "real" executeables, and ensure that they haven't been modified with signcode. But, there's also the banning of bad users that needs to be accomodated.

ASGS has been obfuscated with XenoCode, and it's probably in better shape than a C++ executable as far as reverse engineering goes. You can't see into it with reflector or ILDASM, and you are facing a considerable challenge to get at it with a kernal debugger as it's running in the mscor virtual machine. It's also insulated against attaching to with the VS IDE debugger via XenoCode's runtime. So it's about as secure as you could hope for. Well... it will keep the doorknob rattlers out of the house anyway. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

If you don't get a picture of a user's machine details and tie it to thier account, there will need to be some other way to guarantee a user's identity. One other way would be to make them pay some small amount via a trusted 3rd party (ick). I'm not sure if there are other ways. Perhaps one could issue a certificate with the initial download, (web installer?) but then repaving the machine would allow a user to circumvent a ban.

When you mention speed issues, I'm not sure I follow you? I've never had to wait more than a few seconds to pass ASGS and get into Allegiance.

Orion · Post by **Orion** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:58 pm

The external (background) program would serve to ensure that you are actually running the community's version of the game. Then the community's version of the game itself would send in hardware details, and ensure you are not banned before letting you in. That part would have to be open source (because of the open source license), but the external program would try to ensure you aren't using a hacked version, would not need to be open source.
By speed I'm talking about when you exit Allegiance and need to relogin, or just close ASGS, the interface locks up and spends maybe 20 seconds just hanging before becoming usable again.

Heck, the same server-side ASGS stuff could probably still be used.

madpeople · Post by **madpeople** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:59 pm

having to pay (anything) is offputting, and sucks if your too young to have paypal.

i found allegiance when you had to pay the $1 via paypal.

1) i didn't want to pay $1 to find out if the supposedly free game was any good, and 2) i didn't have paypal and didn't want to go through all the fuss of registering and 3) i'm not sure if i would have been able to register anyway.