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Discussion / Announcement area for PCore development.
ThePhantom032
Posts: 836
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 11:00 am
Location: Germany

Post by ThePhantom032 »

Changes are about OH endgame, rix starting figs, giga specmines, rescue probes and of course phoenix vanguards and gunships in general.

Like before, a short changelog up here for quick reference and with some reasoning further down.

short changelog:CODEGeneral
- nerfed gunship turnrate by another ~10% and turnaccel by ~15%
- reduced miniac speed to 1000 [2000]. Increased Lifetime to 1 [0.5].

TF:
Changed Beacon cost to 250 [200], signature to 20% [5%].

IC:
Changed Rescue scanrange to 500 [1000], signature to 20% [10].

Belters:
Changed Sanctuary signature to 40% [75%]

Phoenix:
He3 Yield reduced to 1.0 [1.1].
Reduced Hyper-Jump booster sig reduction to 90% [120%].
Reduced vanguard counter measure amount to 4 [6].
Reduced vanguard ammo reduced to 400 [600].
Removed EMP mines and laser blossom from vanguards

Omicron Hive:
-increase int size by 10%
-tt and htt uses EMP missile
-all extra ammo from ships removed
-fit omni ammo/dmg for bbrs. Turrets now use the new EW Phaser1-3

Rix:
-Fighters can now rip to scouts.
-Removed 3rd gun slot on basic fighters.
-all sr scouts now have the sr-icon on the minimap
-hunter2/3 and combat drone 2/3 convert to each other now.
-killer1/2 (both missile and TFs torpedo) and hvy combat drone 1/2 convert to each other now.

giga
-added different specmines for sy off. sy on uses old specmines.
-Specmine S (Ur) and Specmine S (Ca) give 1000/payday [1250].
-Specmine S (Si) give 1500 [2000].
-giga now needs to research afterburner 1 in garrison.




with explanations:
CODEGeneral
- nerfed gunship turnrate by another ~10% and turnaccel by ~15%
- reduced miniac speed to 1000 [2000]. Increased Lifetime to 1 [0.5].
No big range change (0.5*your speed), but makes it harder to hit at range.
AC1-3 also have only 1000 speed, so miniAC was actually twice as fast and as such easier to aim at range.

TF:
Changed Beacon cost to 250 [200], signature to 20% [5%].

IC:
Changed Rescue scanrange to 500 [1000], signature to 20% [10].

Both IC and TF were incredibly hard to find while spotting stuff far away (relative to their sig). This should help.

Belters:
Changed Sanctuary signature to 40% [75%]
75% sig means you may as well not put one down as any scout will see it at 1800m and kill it unless its
better for their team. 40% is still enough to be spotted if looking for it (normal scouts see it at 960m)
while low enough to be able to hide it away from the main flightroutes.


Phoenix:
He3 Yield reduced to 1.0 [1.1]. No reason to have more money for these guys as their normal stuff isnt
more expensive, they just have additional stuff thats better than normal.
Reduced Hyper-Jump booster sig reduction to 90% [120%]. This leaves a vanguard with 60% instead of
30% when boosting and not firing, twice as visible.
Reduced vanguard counter measure amount to 4 [6]. -hvy ints have 4 too
Reduced vanguard ammo reduced to 400 [600]. Thats 17s of firing both guns instead of 25s.
Removed EMP mines and laser blossom from vanguards
-> vanguard still deal out insane damage while shooting, but hit less at range and need more reloads in
big fights. They are also weaker against sup and tac, as only exp could deal with them at all until now.
I think they are still strong enough to be considered OP, but they are expensive and need to be as good
as adv tech for their price.

Omicron Hive:
-increase int size by 10%
-tt and htt uses EMP missile - faction is too cheap to skip that kind of research and be able to kill bases too.
-all extra ammo from ships removed
-> this faction already is a lot like IC (just better in most cases), it doenst need extra ammo.
-fit omni ammo/dmg for bbrs.
Turrets now use the new EW Phaser1-3, which is basically PE AC as full energy weapon. This way
I could take turret ammo consumption out of the equation, making it easy to balance the bbr damage output.

Rix:
-Fighters can now rip to scouts.
-Removed 3rd gun slot on basic fighters. -> these 2 changes change rix opening game: you have to
expect fighters whenever you see a scout, but they are not as dangerous and can be defeated by
lt ints and other fighters. This also requires rix to get tech earlier, as their defense sucks otherwise.
-all sr scouts now have the sr-icon on the minimap (finally!)
-hunter2/3 and combat drone 2/3 convert to each other now.
-killer1/2 (both missile and TFs torpedo) and hvy combat drone 1/2 convert to each other now.

giga
-added different specmines for sy off. sy on uses old specmines.
-Specmine S (Ur) and Specmine S (Ca) give 1000/payday [1250].
-Specmine S (Si) give 1500 [2000].
These changes mean it takes longer for specmines to pay off and even after that they give less
money/time. This gives more time to deal with them in small games.
-giga now needs to research afterburner 1 in garrison.
No reason to have giga exp not require reseach from gar when all other techpath do.



Coming soon (2 weeks™): PCore003: Draconium. No other changes until I manage that, unless something is badly broken that I didnt find while testing.

EDIT: changed formatting of
Last edited by ThePhantom032 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Still ready to teach anyone who asks nicely whatever they want to know about playing alleg. Contrary to popular opinion I do not eat newbies. Voobs taste much better.
djrbk
Posts: 2341
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 5:51 am

Post by djrbk »

I highly dislike the change done to rix figs.
ThePhantom032
Posts: 836
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 11:00 am
Location: Germany

Post by ThePhantom032 »

djrbk wrote:QUOTE (djrbk @ Aug 27 2013, 07:09 PM) I highly dislike the change done to rix figs.
Your constructive feedback is highly appreciated.
Still ready to teach anyone who asks nicely whatever they want to know about playing alleg. Contrary to popular opinion I do not eat newbies. Voobs taste much better.
Vortrog
Posts: 1902
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:00 am
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD, Australia

Post by Vortrog »

Rix basic figs vs missile faction basic figs is not good for rix.

Maybe give Rix basic figs more counters per slot? poor trade off I know, as it doesn't help vs TF or Int factions.

I guess this change is in relation to how rix needs to be played early game. If you play Rix early game like any other faction and don't target miners and cons specifically, you are going to suffer.

Your change forces voob comms and newb comms alike to go miner/con.

Actually, give rix figs opening prox as well if you must persist with dual gats only. At least they can d bombrushes a bit better that way.
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ChaoticStorm
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:38 pm
Location: .

Post by ChaoticStorm »

I think the 2 gat rixan figs are more than viable. I mean before they took out carriers without reloading and the gunmounts were very good having decent spread but still having all the bullets land if you were able. And dont start about damage, it needed to be toned down in their old state rix had figs that rivaled most lt ints AND were still able to shred miners to pieces unlike the lt ints who suffer a huge damage class nerf to minigun against util.

Also for defending v.s bombrushes vort, lt ints are worse at that too now since the nerf to mini extends to med hull and shields. Giving rix figs prox might help, but i wouldn't want to allow rix fighters to rip to scouts and help prox incoming miners ON ANY ALEPH. Just use dedicated scout proxers like the rest of the factions do (except bios, but bios is hard pressed to reach decent tech anyway, perhaps relying on gunships)
zombywoof
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Location: Over the Rainbow

Post by zombywoof »

The key change for rix figs is they work with the SR scouts now. They're much worse as combat ships but overall this change massively increases Rix early game flexibility. You can have one scout babysitting miners at all times no matter where they are, have safer con splits, punish naked miners...

I'm only worried that the changes might be OP.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
ThePhantom032
Posts: 836
Joined: Sat May 09, 2009 11:00 am
Location: Germany

Post by ThePhantom032 »

phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Aug 29 2013, 04:49 AM) The key change for rix figs is they work with the SR scouts now. They're much worse as combat ships but overall this change massively increases Rix early game flexibility. You can have one scout babysitting miners at all times no matter where they are, have safer con splits, punish naked miners...

I'm only worried that the changes might be OP.
Seeing how others worry it makes them too weak - Does that mean I hit the middle and its balanced?
I guess we will have to wait until the weekend to test them in a proper game.

PS: Anyone who often gets hit by a dumbfire, seeker1, qf1 or even hunter1 in a straight 1v1 fight should seriously consider mapping sidethruster keys, as none of these missiles actually aim for where you are going to be...
Still ready to teach anyone who asks nicely whatever they want to know about playing alleg. Contrary to popular opinion I do not eat newbies. Voobs taste much better.
zombywoof
Posts: 6523
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:59 am
Location: Over the Rainbow

Post by zombywoof »

Phantom032 wrote:QUOTE (Phantom032 @ Aug 29 2013, 05:54 AM) Seeing how others worry it makes them too weak - Does that mean I hit the middle and its balanced?
I guess we will have to wait until the weekend to test them in a proper game.
DJ didn't say whether they were OP or not, Vort thinks they're weak, and Xivi kind of agrees with me. This isn't something that I think is glaringly OP or glaringly UP, but my cautious guess before actually playing with it is that this change is a fairly substantial buff to Rix early game.

I agree this is something that should be tested, I'm anxious to see how it turns out. Rix SRs are notoriously hard to balance, mostly because they do something no other ship in the game really does. I do firmly believe that for a smart team (and Rix has always favored smart teams more than any other faction IMO) this is a substantial buff... but for the durdly bull@#(! teams you get in PUGs it's probably going to average out to a nerf.
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Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
Traxi
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:48 pm

Post by Traxi »

Most of the points for and against those changes to Rix, were already stated above, so no point in me repeating them,
I would like though to accent on those (at least here you can avoid the insulting, for someone not agreeing with this part of your work, p32 ;) ):

1. Before Rix opening was too strong, even w/o the 3-gat figs ripping to opening conditions SRs.
1.1 Now the opening is overnerfed, which is actually a normal process for game balancing like that - when a person goes nerfing or buffing something, over-buffs and over-nerfs happen all the time.

2. From my limited experience, Rix is now way too weak in the opening vs lt int factions / tf with lt boost.

3. Also, I understand small games are not what allegiance was designed for and what we would like to play, but they are the majority.
Balancing Rix with large games being the focus is simply improper product targeting.
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ChaoticStorm
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 2:38 pm
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Post by ChaoticStorm »

Trax wrote:QUOTE (Trax @ Sep 2 2013, 07:34 AM) Most of the points for and against those changes to Rix, were already stated above, so no point in me repeating them,
I would like though to accent on those (at least here you can avoid the insulting, for someone not agreeing with this part of your work, p32 ;) ):

1. Before Rix opening was too strong, even w/o the 3-gat figs ripping to opening conditions SRs.
More or less correct.
1.1 Now the opening is overnerfed, which is actually a normal process for game balancing like that - when a person goes nerfing or buffing something, over-buffs and over-nerfs happen all the time.
Overnerfed? I'd like to say it was brought in line with the other starting fighter factions all of which drop like flies before any starting lt int faction. Although in an average voob on voob fight rix would win out(ofc in my opinion), simply because rix fighters are smaller than any other fighter and many interceptors the missles are the only thing the other fig factions have going for them at all.

2. From my limited experience, Rix is now way too weak in the opening vs lt int factions / tf with lt boost.
I've found it fine in my own experience. Now rix cant push a con in the opening against a larger force and expect it to plant, and with the return of ripping fighters to srs against an unorganized team the game will end at 10 minutes. Rix simply has to be more cautious with their opening and use their greater mobility and damage perks to their advantage.
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