The key to balancing Alleg would be understanding why people use some factions over others. I think it is pretty clear though:
Tier 1: TF, Dreg and IC
Tier 2: Belters, Giga and BIOS
Tier 3: OH, Rix, and GT
Yes we could leave things how they are to allow 3-6 of our factions to be only played when a commander feels like messing around but surely it'll be more fun for everyone if all the factions are equally viable?
IMO the line is grey between Tier 1 and 2 as they favour certain maps better / worse. IC in theory atm could be considered Tier 2 imo
Thoughts?
Current SG factions
Last edited by Dorjan on Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I decided to relive the days gone by in my new blog.
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Remember, what I say is IMO always. If I say that something sucks, it actually means "I think it sucks" OK?
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Remember, what I say is IMO always. If I say that something sucks, it actually means "I think it sucks" OK?
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Jan 31 2012, 03:09 PM) True story.
Except the big about dorjan being jelly, that's just spidey's ego.
pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Sep 27 2006, 04:19 PM) Time to spunkbalance balance DN CC...
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.
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Spunkmeyer
- Posts: 2013
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:00 am
- Location: Contact me regarding: CC, Slayer and AllegWiki.
Hahahaha, did you really pull a quote from 2006? 
Well, I agree overall, but my impression is slightly different. I'd put them in three tiers:
First tier: IC, TF, Dreg - all have great ints, excellent econ.
Second tier: Belters, Giga, BIOS. I think the mass penalty of belter figs and ints SHOULD be reduced to the mass penalty of their SFs (I think the numbers are 67% vs 50% or so, from memory. There is really no reason for the inconsistency) and perhaps a little extra fuel provided. That'd move Belters to the first tier. Giga has excellent econ and can win if the total money setting is jacked up to 1.5+ or resources set to scarce and the team can offer some miner D. BIOS is tricky. I'm not convinced payday nerf was the right choice, because in addition to killing the lost all miners scenario it also adds additional down-time between miner loads in few-miner situations. It seems to me the correct action would have been to roll back some of the historical boosts instead and rethink the skycap boost. And heavy cloak is still too heavy.
(I'd like to have some comments on this, as admittedly there may be a significant Belter perk or additional Giga nerf I've missed)
Third tier: OH, Rix, GT. Can't say much about OH. I've seen your Rix thread, will comment there. GT....I consciously designed GT to be very different tech and econ-wise, so it had taken me three or more iterations, with huge changes for each, to balance GT to the point where I felt comfortable with its strength relative to other factions.... even at that point it wasn't usable for squad games. DN GT, which is what you are playing now, feels more like my first iteration in terms of relative balance.
Well, I agree overall, but my impression is slightly different. I'd put them in three tiers:
First tier: IC, TF, Dreg - all have great ints, excellent econ.
Second tier: Belters, Giga, BIOS. I think the mass penalty of belter figs and ints SHOULD be reduced to the mass penalty of their SFs (I think the numbers are 67% vs 50% or so, from memory. There is really no reason for the inconsistency) and perhaps a little extra fuel provided. That'd move Belters to the first tier. Giga has excellent econ and can win if the total money setting is jacked up to 1.5+ or resources set to scarce and the team can offer some miner D. BIOS is tricky. I'm not convinced payday nerf was the right choice, because in addition to killing the lost all miners scenario it also adds additional down-time between miner loads in few-miner situations. It seems to me the correct action would have been to roll back some of the historical boosts instead and rethink the skycap boost. And heavy cloak is still too heavy.
(I'd like to have some comments on this, as admittedly there may be a significant Belter perk or additional Giga nerf I've missed)
Third tier: OH, Rix, GT. Can't say much about OH. I've seen your Rix thread, will comment there. GT....I consciously designed GT to be very different tech and econ-wise, so it had taken me three or more iterations, with huge changes for each, to balance GT to the point where I felt comfortable with its strength relative to other factions.... even at that point it wasn't usable for squad games. DN GT, which is what you are playing now, feels more like my first iteration in terms of relative balance.
Last edited by Spunkmeyer on Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Want bigger games? Log on to play at the official game time: 9pmET/8pmCT/7pmMT/6pmPT every day of the week. Also Saturdays 8pm UTC.
Agreed, edited opening post to represent
I decided to relive the days gone by in my new blog.
---
Remember, what I say is IMO always. If I say that something sucks, it actually means "I think it sucks" OK?
---
Remember, what I say is IMO always. If I say that something sucks, it actually means "I think it sucks" OK?
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Jan 31 2012, 03:09 PM) True story.
Except the big about dorjan being jelly, that's just spidey's ego.
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Spunkmeyer
- Posts: 2013
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:00 am
- Location: Contact me regarding: CC, Slayer and AllegWiki.
Regarding IC tier 1 - with a commander micro-managing miners, and the team deploying rescue probes in the sectors adjacent to mining areas, and game settings at their common defaults of 1 total money and Nomal resources.... IC cannot be anything but tier 1. Rescue probes with 10% sig and 1000 scan are very, very, very OP and make it trivial for an aware commander to rip miners out of danger, and your econ works more or less at the same rate as the enemy till you rape a miner or two, when you take over. And you are essentially impervious to sup till figbees to boot.
If enemy has game settings and boosts the per rock money sky high, you don't manage miners, you don't even buy enhanced miners and your team doesn't deploy RPs.... then it's a completely different story but then you've deserved the loss.
If enemy has game settings and boosts the per rock money sky high, you don't manage miners, you don't even buy enhanced miners and your team doesn't deploy RPs.... then it's a completely different story but then you've deserved the loss.
Want bigger games? Log on to play at the official game time: 9pmET/8pmCT/7pmMT/6pmPT every day of the week. Also Saturdays 8pm UTC.
TF Beacons are more OP (yes less scan range but the lower sig is more handy imo) and cheaper.Spunkmeyer wrote:QUOTE (Spunkmeyer @ Nov 26 2010, 02:26 PM) Regarding IC tier 1 - with a commander micro-managing miners, and the team deploying rescue probes in the sectors adjacent to mining areas, and game settings at their common defaults of 1 total money and Nomal resources.... IC cannot be anything but tier 1. Rescue probes with 10% sig and 1000 scan are very, very, very OP and make it trivial for an aware commander to rip miners out of danger, and your econ works more or less at the same rate as the enemy till you rape a miner or two, when you take over. And you are essentially impervious to sup till figbees to boot.
If enemy has game settings and boosts the per rock money sky high, you don't manage miners, you don't even buy enhanced miners and your team doesn't deploy RPs.... then it's a completely different story but then you've deserved the loss.
No more since CC_08...HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Nov 26 2010, 03:32 PM) TF Beacons are more OP (yes less scan range but the lower sig is more handy imo) and cheaper.
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.
-
Spunkmeyer
- Posts: 2013
- Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:00 am
- Location: Contact me regarding: CC, Slayer and AllegWiki.
Original Pod Beacon had only a signature of 1% and no scanrange...Spunkmeyer wrote:QUOTE (Spunkmeyer @ Nov 26 2010, 03:51 PM) Holy @#(!, 5% sig?????????????????
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.