Nerf Bios and Rix, perk IC

NightRychune · Post by **NightRychune** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:36 pm

http://asgs.alleg.net/asgsnet/factionstats.aspx

45-50% is the ideal target for faction balance. Anything above 55% is an outlier and should be nerfed (Bios, Rix) and anything below 45 should be perked.

Bios: Revert the con, miner, and carrier build times to 90s. Gunships are also a problem, and on the overall scheme of things this and the problem with corvettes is solved by reducing the particle speed of Skycap by 50% and adjusting the particle lifetime in order to compensate, reducing them back to 1.25 levels. Currently they are far, far too accurate for an AoE weapon that any idiot voob can use well.
Rix: Remove the front-mounted MiniAC on Hvy scouts, institute an He yield or speed nerf.

With the exception of IC, and I'm still greatly amused that people can't seem to win with it, these numbers supplement the fact that Bios and Rix are factions that people have been requesting and justifying nerfs for for a very long time, considering neither faction, aside from the fig scale and fuel perks applied in earlier releases of CC, has been changed since the last release of DN. (00.04.60, where Bios was nerfed after the initial wave of perks that was given to it in 00.04.50, which reduced all of their con, miner, and carrier build times and gave them free Enh carriers. Prior to that release, Bios had a consistent 39% win rate over the course of several months).

Clearly, IC should be perked as well because CC is meant for the community, and should be balanced for the community's average skill level!

Vortrog · Post by **Vortrog** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:49 pm

You had me at remove mini ac from rix heavy scouts but alas due to my lack of knowledge that's the most I can offer
I don't thin ic needs a perk I just see too many teams get ic heavy ints and decide to whore and let the other team into the game

_SRM_Nuke · Post by **_SRM_Nuke** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:57 pm

I would be cautious using the faction win stats for Rix as a reason to nerf them mainly because one person commands Rix hvy scouts late at night, every night, destroying voob comms. Vet comms, like you Viru, know how to beat hvy scouts. But voobs at late night have no clue. Terran already has 7 comm wins for April, at least a few of those being Rix hvy scouts. Its like basing changes to Giga on how Fufi commands. Its an anomaly.

Bios though? You definitely have a point with a 58% win ratio. If I can use $90,000 in paydays to beat Spidey, its a broken faction.

However, I don't think increasing build times by 30s is going to have much of an effect. Its worth a shot though and its easily reversible if it doesn't do the job.

Also, lol at this:

NightRychune wrote:QUOTE (NightRychune @ Apr 5 2010, 04:36 PM) Clearly, IC should be perked as well because CC is meant for the community, and should be balanced for the community's average skill level!

SpaceJunk · Post by **SpaceJunk** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:01 pm

Newbie comms play IC mostly, and probably avoid the more complicated factions.

Post by **pkk** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:01 pm

NightRychune wrote:QUOTE (NightRychune @ Apr 5 2010, 10:36 PM) http://asgs.alleg.net/asgsnet/factionstats.aspx

Please don't use the results of just one month...

http://asgs.alleg.net/asgsnet/factionstats...&core=cc_08

Makida · Post by **Makida** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:17 pm

Firstly, are these numbers actually sound? I ask because I remember there was some trouble with them before, and the statistics were supposedly inaccurate for a period of time last year. Has this all been fixed up by now, though?

Also, I don't necessarily disagree that Bios should be nerfed, but where do the arbitrary 55% and 45% boundaries come from? Why not 60% and 40%? If a faction wins 58% of the games it plays in one month, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a total game breaker.

And don't vet comms tend to command Bios? Newbies seem to be scared off by its long research time, from what I've seen. Bios is tricky. Same with Rix. Rix are a pain to fly for newbs, which might discourage less experienced commanders from using them. And rushing rix heavy scouts is just as likely to get you a loss if you're a voobish commander as it is to help you win if you're more experienced. It doesn't necessarily need a nerf.

The numbers since the start of the year are interesting... has TF really become that successful? O_o No surprises with G'T at the bottom of the list, though.

P.S. Obviously, Omicron Hive needs a nerf.

Well, looking at last month's results. Over the year, it's been the most perfectly balanced faction ever!

NightRychune · Post by **NightRychune** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:21 pm

With that argument, pkk, you could go back even further than simply to the first release of cc_08, as I said in my initial post, Bios hasn't directly been changed since the last release of DN.

http://asgs.alleg.net/asgsnet/factionstats...tart=2009-05-09

Across every release of CC starting from cc_04, Bios has a 56% (rounded up) win rate, which is still higher than what it should be.

girlyboy wrote:QUOTE (girlyboy @ Apr 5 2010, 03:17 PM) Firstly, are these numbers actually sound? I ask because I remember there was some trouble with them before, and the statistics were supposedly inaccurate for a period of time last year. Has this all been fixed up by now, though?

Also, I don't necessarily disagree that Bios should be nerfed, but where do the arbitrary 55% and 45% boundaries come from? Why not 60% and 40%? If a faction wins 58% of the games it plays in one month, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a total game breaker.

And don't vet comms tend to command Bios? Newbies seem to be scared off by its long research time, from what I've seen. Bios is tricky. Same with Rix. Rix are a pain to fly for newbs, which might discourage less experienced commanders from using them. And rushing rix heavy scouts is just as likely to get you a loss if you're a voobish commander as it is to help you win if you're more experienced. It doesn't necessarily need a nerf.

The numbers since the start of the year are interesting... has TF really become that successful? O_o No surprises with G'T at the bottom of the list, though.

P.S. Obviously, Omicron Hive needs a nerf.

45%-55% were the numbers that were used for a very long time with DN to determine what did and didn't need to be adjusted, and those were from a time before the faction stats page was even added, when Noir went back through his server logs to determine the statistics.

Makida · Post by **Makida** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:24 pm

If bios is played by vet comms 70% of the time and newbie comms 30% of the time, or something, it consistently having an above -- 55% win rate does not necessarily mean it's unbalanced overall...

NightRychune · Post by **NightRychune** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:28 pm

girlyboy wrote:QUOTE (girlyboy @ Apr 5 2010, 03:24 PM) If bios is played by vet comms 70% of the time and newbie comms 30% of the time, or something, it consistently having an above -- 55% win rate does not necessarily mean it's unbalanced overall...

Why is Bios played by vet comms more often, then? Is it because they like gimping themselves, or is it because it's an inordinately strong faction that's easy to win with in pugs?

_SRM_Nuke · Post by **_SRM_Nuke** » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:28 pm

girlyboy wrote:QUOTE (girlyboy @ Apr 5 2010, 05:24 PM) If bios is played by vet comms 70% of the time and newbie comms 30% of the time, or something, it consistently having an above -- 55% win rate does not necessarily mean it's unbalanced overall...

So you want to balance factions based on newbie comms?