Stealing tech

Vlymoxyd · Post by **Vlymoxyd** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:40 pm

In my thread about replacing floating tech, someone suggested to just remove their def and allow people to use them while being unable to unlock the tech.
I originally said that it'd remove tech stealing and that it wouldn't work because of that. But then I though: What about removing tech stealing completely?

I though and still think that removing tech stealing would overally improve the game, but it'd still remove something interesting. So my next idea was: What about greatly reducing tech drop rate? I'm talking about a 98-99% reduction(Pls don't say it's too much unless you know what you're talking about).

Ok, I know it's probably a code change, but I have the impression it's probably a single value that would probably take 2 second to change if the coder knows where to find it. The best change, although taking longer, would be to switch tech drop rate to the core and if possible, being able to assign a different one for every tech. Imo, Code changes idea that affects gameplay are best discussed on the CC forum than on the Faz dev one(These guys added so many great options that weren't used!). I also think it'd make sense to make the actual drop rate % be affected by team sizes(smaller teams = more drop)

Imo, a team should have the option to buy tech that the enemy could use. The problem right now is that buying mini3 in an exp vs exp game usually means the enemy will steal it before your whole team manages to upgrade(Some enemies will get mini3 before people on your team). I think it would be fun to be able to buy tech and be able to keep an advantage for a while. paying 5k for a 25% dame bonus for 7-8 mins could be worth it. Paying 5k for a 25% damage bonus that will last 1 or 2 mins only isn't(Considering people needs to dock to upgrade). It could also be fun for the opposite team: Wait to steal mini3 or buy it?

There's many reasons in very specific situations to buy tech that the enemy can buy, but most of the time, it's not worth it.

I have to go, otherwise I'd have said more.

Cortex · Post by **Cortex** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:21 pm

So what's your suggestion? You basically had three:
a) Removing tech stealing. (Code change, but should be simple.)
b) Reducing the chance of a tech drop. (Code change, but should be simple.)
c) Allowing a comm to buy some GA that prevents tech drops for a limited time. (Code change, not *that* simple.)

You also gave no arguments for these, except "I think it would be fun to be able [...] to keep an advantage for a while", which isn't a very convincing argument for me, if one at all.

So far, -1 on all three ideas. I just don't see the point.

-- Cort

Psychosis · Post by **Psychosis** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:24 pm

no, stealing tech is an entire tactic, and has been integral to the game since its beginning.

Vlymoxyd · Post by **Vlymoxyd** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:03 pm

Cortex:

#1 was my 1st idea. I beleive that the advantages of doing it outweight the disadvantages, but I didn't really like the idea of just throwing tech stealing away.

#2 is imo the best compromise. It would keep most of the advantages of removing tech stealing(There'd be a point to buy tech that the enemy can steal) while still keeping it in the game. There'd be like no disadvantages.

#3 is something I never though of.

Psyc: Tech stealing currently limits THE core part of the game, which is racing the other team to the "best" tech. Limiting tech stealing means that in situations where both teams use the same tech, the race to the top tech would be wider. Obviously, it wouldn't change much if the techs are different.

Adaven · Post by **Adaven** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:49 pm

btw, tech drop rate is related to payday interval. Make paydays every 2 minutes instead of one (double the cash accordingly) and you should halve the tech spawn rate.

Jyppa · Post by **Jyppa** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:51 pm

Would it be possible to make each tech pickup only further the research partially, like, say, adding $100 to the development? That way, tech stealing would still be valuable, but the actual result delayed.

Icky · Post by **Icky** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:57 pm

The risk of having tech stolen is an integral part of the game. I played in a Bios vs Rix sup on sup game a few nights back, and the Rix team bought gat3. It was a silly decision for obvious reasons, and it helped the Bios team win the game.

I think the risk of having tech stolen just adds extra complexity to the beautiful tapestry that is allegiance. Don't want to have the tech stolen? You better play more defensively then! Don't get podded! Dropping tech is like KB, I'm not sure how you could take it out without removing a lot of the tactical decisions and FUN of the game.

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:00 pm

Adaven wrote:QUOTE (Adaven @ Sep 11 2009, 11:49 PM) btw, tech drop rate is related to payday interval. Make paydays every 2 minutes instead of one (double the cash accordingly) and you should halve the tech spawn rate.

Which can slightly then be offset by doubling chance rate for all treasures

I don't like your idea Vly, I understand you wanting to limit the luck factor but a lot of Allegiance is luck, assuming you have two evenly matched teams and commanders then it's most likely that the luckier team wins, not just by tech drops though but by other factors, tech rock type, rock placements (not just tech rocks), aleph placements and distance also play big factors but the solution to that would be having a static unchanging map to play on like some RTS where players know exactly where everything is which would then be quite boring especially tactics wise as commanders and players would repeat the same strategies over and over again but it would make it more fair as there is no luck involved.

As for the tech stealing I can understand how some teams can stalemate on mini 1/2 instead of buying better tech but it just means tactics are varied, if your stalemating on mini1 (and say hmm treasures is turned off because Vly is GC

) then you can get bombers, if the enemy get bombers then maybe you should buy mini2, I don't think there has ever been a case of two teams stalemating just because they were too afraid to buy better tech incase of the enemy stealing it.

Makida · Post by **Makida** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:06 pm

If your basic point is that Allegiance is all about this tech race, and therefore anything that complicates matters or makes buying tech a bad decision should be removed or toned down, then I disagree. Allegiance is a fun game because it's more than just a race for the best tech -- that's the big part of it, but there are other complications, and the chance of tech being stolen is a part of what makes it more interesting. There is nothing good about cutting out or toning down every element of the game that does not fit some single core concept. That just makes it more boring. Picking up tech is fun.

If it was a *very mild* reduction in how often the tech is dropped, then that might be alright. But it should be a very small change, just at the boundaries of being noticeable. I mean, slightly expanding the number of situations where buying tech your enemy might steal isn't *completely* stupid might be a good idea, but it shouldn't be as big a difference as the difference between "1-2 minutes" and "7-8 minutes," to use your way of putting it.

Vlymoxyd · Post by **Vlymoxyd** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:25 pm

Adaven, I think you're confusing floating tech with tech dropped by the enemy.

As for strategies, there'd be a lot more strategies involved if a team could benefit from buying new techs instead of it being stupid 95% of the time. Not buying the enemy tech isn't a strategy, it's just common sense. What I'm proposing with reduced drop rates would actually enhance the strategic aspect of buying tech. Saying the opposite just make no sense.