Giga light bases need an upgrade.
1 or 2 turret skycaps take it down in under a minute.
Giga Light Base Change Discussion
You can build another base in the same time. And if people are shooting your base and you arent defending it - that means your team is doing something more important else where - and the other team is 2/3 people short to counter whatever it is you are doingValor wrote:QUOTE (Valor @ Jul 7 2009, 09:26 AM) Giga light bases need an upgrade.
1 or 2 turret skycaps take it down in under a minute.
I'm sorry I don't remember any of it. For you the day spideycw graced your squad with utter destruction was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Sunday
Idanmel wrote:QUOTE (Idanmel @ Mar 19 2012, 05:54 AM) I am ashamed for all the drama I caused, I have much to learn on how to behave when things don't go my way.
My apologies.
I still would like to see the damage modifier for dis vs light base hull to become x3 instead of x4.
Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
giga exp v ic capships using skycap = ic wins.spideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ Jul 7 2009, 11:06 AM) You can build another base in the same time. And if people are shooting your base and you arent defending it - that means your team is doing something more important else where - and the other team is 2/3 people short to counter whatever it is you are doing
so what then?
Cap's don't win versus anything. You either see the caps coming and camp for them - or sit in base for the time it takes you to get the 5 people it takes to launch at the same time and kill a corvette
I'm sorry I don't remember any of it. For you the day spideycw graced your squad with utter destruction was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Sunday
Idanmel wrote:QUOTE (Idanmel @ Mar 19 2012, 05:54 AM) I am ashamed for all the drama I caused, I have much to learn on how to behave when things don't go my way.
My apologies.
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CronoDroid
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Five people?! Fool I could take five people in a Corv by myself, seeing as they're using Giga Ints. You can build another base in the meantime? Not even. That's another base you have to buy, and it takes a lot more than one minute to replace a base. You have to mine for the cash, you have to buy the con and you have to plant it. If you're mining, that is. Usually when the enemy takes out an op, your economy can rapidly go down the drain if the enemy has any sort of a clue. If they're able to get a bunch of figs to mount Dis2 and go on a run they can sure as hell get a bunch of figs to go attack a miner. And your mining chain? Please.
It's not an issue with scaling at all, because you only need a small amount of people to Dis2 a base successfully, four? Five? You assume that having people on D will mean every run will fail. But Giga sucks at defending anything, let alone a tele or an op with very little hull or shield. Either change their armour class, or perk their hull, or do what I suggested with Dreg and boost regen time. Dreg do not suck nearly as much now, yet their bases aren't much more difficult to kill with a bomber. But they are not quite so easily galved, which definitely gives their Exp an advantage over enemy Sup teams.
Anyway, I'll wait until faction win/loss is out to see whether Giga is overwhelmingly powerful, average or weak. But based on my experiences, which have been plentiful, Giga are not exactly a powerhouse. They're craphouse.
It's not an issue with scaling at all, because you only need a small amount of people to Dis2 a base successfully, four? Five? You assume that having people on D will mean every run will fail. But Giga sucks at defending anything, let alone a tele or an op with very little hull or shield. Either change their armour class, or perk their hull, or do what I suggested with Dreg and boost regen time. Dreg do not suck nearly as much now, yet their bases aren't much more difficult to kill with a bomber. But they are not quite so easily galved, which definitely gives their Exp an advantage over enemy Sup teams.
Anyway, I'll wait until faction win/loss is out to see whether Giga is overwhelmingly powerful, average or weak. But based on my experiences, which have been plentiful, Giga are not exactly a powerhouse. They're craphouse.
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CronoDroid
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If you don't want to perk Giga defensively (although in my mind they are typically a defensive faction; you run your econ while fending off your enemy with cheap bases until you get Luxury crap up), you should change their focus into an offensive corporate takeover faction. Contrary to what spidey thinks, it is not economically viable to keep building small bases rather than getting tech, especially if those bases aren't being used to disrupt the enemy's economy. The enemy can kill your bases way, way faster than you can afford to build them.
Put in the numbers. How long do you think it takes to round up five figs with Dis2 and attack an op or tele? Not long. How long does it take for a miner to drain a rock and drop it off, you to buy the con, walk the con to the sector you just lost and plant it? Much longer.
Since Lt Carriers are crap now (and Patties don't have the same amount of fuel), Giga is way weaker during the opening. Considering all their other nerfs, it isn't needed. If you have SOMETHING against perking their small bases, give Giga it's offensive bite back. Yeah, they'll have weak bases and their map control could be tenuous. But the enemy has to weigh up disrupting Giga off the map or dealing with their carriers and Patties at the four minute mark.
Giga used to have teeth. Now it's TF, BIOS, whatever the hell. I don't understand this opposition to perking Giga. Do you REALLY think that a few of these fairly mild perks will completely break the core? No. HELL no. They're still not a serious faction. They don't have the early punch of the Rix or IC, nor the dangerous longevity of BIOS, TF or Belters. Their ships are by far the weakest, their bases are by far the weakest, and they don't even have the economy they're meant to have. Friggin' Belters has a better econ than Giga. 1.25 capacity?! Oh awesome! I love having a perk I never use.
Why don't you try it for a change, nobody even likes Giga besides me, Drizzo and a few other people. Most players would rather fly Rix or IC Hvy Ints. If you really want to inject something dynamic into this core, why don't you change it up a bit and make Giga stronger for a while?
Put in the numbers. How long do you think it takes to round up five figs with Dis2 and attack an op or tele? Not long. How long does it take for a miner to drain a rock and drop it off, you to buy the con, walk the con to the sector you just lost and plant it? Much longer.
Since Lt Carriers are crap now (and Patties don't have the same amount of fuel), Giga is way weaker during the opening. Considering all their other nerfs, it isn't needed. If you have SOMETHING against perking their small bases, give Giga it's offensive bite back. Yeah, they'll have weak bases and their map control could be tenuous. But the enemy has to weigh up disrupting Giga off the map or dealing with their carriers and Patties at the four minute mark.
Giga used to have teeth. Now it's TF, BIOS, whatever the hell. I don't understand this opposition to perking Giga. Do you REALLY think that a few of these fairly mild perks will completely break the core? No. HELL no. They're still not a serious faction. They don't have the early punch of the Rix or IC, nor the dangerous longevity of BIOS, TF or Belters. Their ships are by far the weakest, their bases are by far the weakest, and they don't even have the economy they're meant to have. Friggin' Belters has a better econ than Giga. 1.25 capacity?! Oh awesome! I love having a perk I never use.
Why don't you try it for a change, nobody even likes Giga besides me, Drizzo and a few other people. Most players would rather fly Rix or IC Hvy Ints. If you really want to inject something dynamic into this core, why don't you change it up a bit and make Giga stronger for a while?
I'll be honest. I think giga is one of the most balanced factions currently and I have NO problem winning games with giga. I think you have to show you aren't just being/flying for inferior comms who don't know how to properly command giga before we even think of looking at making their bases tougher.
Can you give me some specific examples of giga getting owned by a sup team or something? I know I commanded giga twice yesterday and once today against sup teams and handily won both
Can you give me some specific examples of giga getting owned by a sup team or something? I know I commanded giga twice yesterday and once today against sup teams and handily won both
I'm sorry I don't remember any of it. For you the day spideycw graced your squad with utter destruction was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Sunday
Idanmel wrote:QUOTE (Idanmel @ Mar 19 2012, 05:54 AM) I am ashamed for all the drama I caused, I have much to learn on how to behave when things don't go my way.
My apologies.
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CronoDroid
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Great, we're using spidey as our model?! I've said this before. We shouldn't use the magical ACS Head commanderooney as the balancing model because that's just retarded. It's like saying "oh bombers are too weak, perk" because starfire is flying them. It's nonsensical. Who did you command against? aarm? Shiz? Who did they have on their team? Weed? Me??!!! Or did you command against someone like Terran who tries his best but doesn't usually draw a good team.
Spidey, obviously YOU have problem winning games with Giga.
QUOTE I think you have to show you aren't just being/flying for inferior comms who don't know how to properly command giga before we even think of looking at making their bases tougher.[/quote]
Inferior commanders? How about SUPERIOR commanders. I don't like to toot your horn but there is a reason you're ACS head douche. You're a premier commander. Most people don't have your reputation to draw a superior team. So yeah, you have NO problems winning with Giga? What about the rest of us? I like to think I'm a pretty useful player but even if I can dismantle an enemy's economy singlehandedly (I usually can't), I can't defend all our bases at the same time. Even if a team could defend a single base for a prolonged period, it only takes one or two pilots to go around killing refs. Without refs, it is somewhat harder to run a proper economy. I've seen this done many times against Giga and other factions. Often when a team goes Sup, they won't have ops forward that you can launch from and defend as well as drop minerloads off at.
Okay, I commanded Giga a week or so ago and we lost, we didn't get dissed off the map but our Tac got bombed and our Sup. But I did also fly for numerous Giga teams over the next couple of days and we could not muster any offense because our carriers died in minutes if not seconds and all the bases we could fly from got dissed. It's great having Enh Figs or Patties but no teles on the map, while you can't mine because you have no refs. I did win a game with grav against Psychosis even though he bought spec refs and we messed around for about an hour before my relentless Lxy Scout skills forced the enemy to resign. That game, however, proved a lot because even though I helped keep the enemy's economy non-existant, we always had to fly from our techbase or our garrison three or four sectors from the enemy because we could not defend ops or teles with any real success, especially when they got their team onto them.
Even though it's playing defence, six defenders (Enh Figs and Heavy Scouts) cannot stop six Dis2 figs, even with maybe one or two extra nans.
If I were to give a rough estimate, I'd say it would take five figs about 30-40 seconds to kill an op with two Dis2 and one Gat2 mounted, along with pouring dumbfires into the base. We can test it if you want. If that is the case, the op is far, far too weak. Like I said it takes more than 30 seconds to replace an op or a tele.
It'd be ALL fine if every commander is Spidey, but most of the good commanders are AWOL or simply don't command anymore. If you really wanted a legit opinion, ask Xeretov who is fairly inexperienced, or Phoenix1 to command Giga in PUGs and see if THEY have no problem winning with Giga.
Spidey, obviously YOU have problem winning games with Giga.
QUOTE I think you have to show you aren't just being/flying for inferior comms who don't know how to properly command giga before we even think of looking at making their bases tougher.[/quote]
Inferior commanders? How about SUPERIOR commanders. I don't like to toot your horn but there is a reason you're ACS head douche. You're a premier commander. Most people don't have your reputation to draw a superior team. So yeah, you have NO problems winning with Giga? What about the rest of us? I like to think I'm a pretty useful player but even if I can dismantle an enemy's economy singlehandedly (I usually can't), I can't defend all our bases at the same time. Even if a team could defend a single base for a prolonged period, it only takes one or two pilots to go around killing refs. Without refs, it is somewhat harder to run a proper economy. I've seen this done many times against Giga and other factions. Often when a team goes Sup, they won't have ops forward that you can launch from and defend as well as drop minerloads off at.
Okay, I commanded Giga a week or so ago and we lost, we didn't get dissed off the map but our Tac got bombed and our Sup. But I did also fly for numerous Giga teams over the next couple of days and we could not muster any offense because our carriers died in minutes if not seconds and all the bases we could fly from got dissed. It's great having Enh Figs or Patties but no teles on the map, while you can't mine because you have no refs. I did win a game with grav against Psychosis even though he bought spec refs and we messed around for about an hour before my relentless Lxy Scout skills forced the enemy to resign. That game, however, proved a lot because even though I helped keep the enemy's economy non-existant, we always had to fly from our techbase or our garrison three or four sectors from the enemy because we could not defend ops or teles with any real success, especially when they got their team onto them.
Even though it's playing defence, six defenders (Enh Figs and Heavy Scouts) cannot stop six Dis2 figs, even with maybe one or two extra nans.
If I were to give a rough estimate, I'd say it would take five figs about 30-40 seconds to kill an op with two Dis2 and one Gat2 mounted, along with pouring dumbfires into the base. We can test it if you want. If that is the case, the op is far, far too weak. Like I said it takes more than 30 seconds to replace an op or a tele.
It'd be ALL fine if every commander is Spidey, but most of the good commanders are AWOL or simply don't command anymore. If you really wanted a legit opinion, ask Xeretov who is fairly inexperienced, or Phoenix1 to command Giga in PUGs and see if THEY have no problem winning with Giga.