Okay, I think the majority of the community accept that caps need work. Madpeople made a whole raft of proposed changes for shipyard and I cannot for the life of me find the changelist.
Anyway this thread is here to discuss and exchange ideas regarding shipyard in its current state and to see what if any changes need to be made to shipyard to make it more viable and or more balanced.
p.s - I should of mentioned any posts which are not relevant will be deleted. Please remember this is a discussion.
Update: 22/4/09 - I've been speaking with Madpeople and im going to see about getting his capcore uploaded to Autoupdate. Once it's up i'd like to see some feedback about it. Good and Bad.
Capital Ships
Keep the light/medium/heavy/whatever class structure. However, don't have it research ships aside from a few things like freighters or the like. Then have each individual ship/item become available as each class comes available.
OR
Have a "type" structure - Combat, Anti-Base, defense, whatever. Make the station upgrade separate but needed for some of ht elarger things.
Combat could have ships that are useful for direct attack against other craft - whether it's against small craft or other cap ships.
Defense could be things like corvs, useful for defending miners or cons. Could also include carriers.
OR
Have a "type" structure - Combat, Anti-Base, defense, whatever. Make the station upgrade separate but needed for some of ht elarger things.
Combat could have ships that are useful for direct attack against other craft - whether it's against small craft or other cap ships.
Defense could be things like corvs, useful for defending miners or cons. Could also include carriers.
Giga SY needs to have drydock availability, it's an absolute travesty that Giga can't research Longtoms or Large Shield 3, it's bad enough they have to research all the basic tech and they need an adv techbase to even have the option of a SY.
Giga SY is pathetic to be honest and is only gotten once the giga team has already dominated the enemy because it's pretty much suicide to get caps with Giga if you aren't already beating your opponent because it's ridiculously expensive to get any tech up so you must already be getting a big economy anyway and if you don't have a huge economy then you are just giving the enemy time to beat you while you spend lots of time and money trying to get caps up.
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For Cap's overall maybe make them cheaper but also have less hull/shield, that way you see more caps but they are less deadly so you might actually see fleet of caps vs fleet of caps, or fleets of caps being used instead of the everyone nan the 1 frig tactic.
Giga SY is pathetic to be honest and is only gotten once the giga team has already dominated the enemy because it's pretty much suicide to get caps with Giga if you aren't already beating your opponent because it's ridiculously expensive to get any tech up so you must already be getting a big economy anyway and if you don't have a huge economy then you are just giving the enemy time to beat you while you spend lots of time and money trying to get caps up.
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For Cap's overall maybe make them cheaper but also have less hull/shield, that way you see more caps but they are less deadly so you might actually see fleet of caps vs fleet of caps, or fleets of caps being used instead of the everyone nan the 1 frig tactic.
Continuing in the same vein - you could also make them a bit smaller, people may use more of them if they feel like a smaller ship....HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Apr 22 2009, 12:32 AM) For Cap's overall maybe make them cheaper but also have less hull/shield, that way you see more caps but they are less deadly so you might actually see fleet of caps vs fleet of caps, or fleets of caps being used instead of the everyone nan the 1 frig tactic.
Make the shipyard easier to access. Perhaps remove its dependance on a techbase, but you need techbase to get medium class, adv techbase for heavy/super heavy.
On a related note, rebalance the costs so shipyard isn't a money-sink. I guess make everything cheaper but weaker.
Lower the assault ships top speed. That thing's impossible to catch.
Do something about the turrets, so there is a distinction between anti-fig turrets and anti-capship turrets. Atm skycap dicks on all, and LongTom is a win button.
On a related note, you often can't get many capships out because it takes a lot of players to man all the turrets. Allow the heavier capships to mount more powerful turrets, instead of just more of them, to alleviate this.
Capships have quite a bit of difficulty getting though camps, so maybe:
Lower the signature on capships.
Lower the damage of mines against capships.
Develop a "light aleph res" which doesn't do super damage but can be used to force enemy small class ships away from alephs.
On a related note, rebalance the costs so shipyard isn't a money-sink. I guess make everything cheaper but weaker.
Lower the assault ships top speed. That thing's impossible to catch.
Do something about the turrets, so there is a distinction between anti-fig turrets and anti-capship turrets. Atm skycap dicks on all, and LongTom is a win button.
On a related note, you often can't get many capships out because it takes a lot of players to man all the turrets. Allow the heavier capships to mount more powerful turrets, instead of just more of them, to alleviate this.
Capships have quite a bit of difficulty getting though camps, so maybe:
Lower the signature on capships.
Lower the damage of mines against capships.
Develop a "light aleph res" which doesn't do super damage but can be used to force enemy small class ships away from alephs.
Last edited by juckto on Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Usually though, "skill" is used to covertly mean "match the game exactly to my level of competence." Anyone who is at all worse than me should fail utterly (and humorously!) and anyone better is clearly too caught up in the game and their opinions shouldn't count.
just thinking aloud here, juckto, but can we do one player controlling two turrets? I know we could do double launch missiles...
Don't find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain.
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Apr 1 2009, 09:35 PM) But I don't read the forums I only post.
No, you can't, and no you couldn't.phoenix1 wrote:QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Apr 21 2009, 09:28 PM) just thinking aloud here, juckto, but can we do one player controlling two turrets? I know we could do double launch missiles...
Double launch missiles didn't work right - I don't know the specifics, but I know they didn't.
Two turrets, or even two weapons on one turret - Can't be done either.
I have no clue what you're trying to say in the second part of this, but yes, you can hack a 'dual weapon' - the issue becomes that the sprites are somewhat fickle when comparing what you see to what is the result (Although the spiral of two "bullets" circling around a center point does look really neat)sambasti wrote:QUOTE (sambasti @ Apr 21 2009, 10:21 PM) You could do one turret with double speed, or double damage. However, it would require two different ships in order to prevent it form going strong-strong-medium-medium (assuming that medium-medium-medium-medium would be standard.
In the spirit of minor changes for each core in community core I propose:
Even the costs for SY out - 10k for the con, lower the price on the midrange caps
To go with the lowered costs lower the power of the basic level of capitals by a small amount - A lower hull on the corv and attack carrier
Make skycap unavailable to the basic level of capital ship - a full AC on the corv and attack carrier should be enough for basics (maybe provide a version of AC for cap ships so that they don't need a sup for ultimate goodies)
Decrease Dis dmg to Cap hull, increase Gat damage to hull accordingly - this should prevent dis from being the auto cap killer
Make longtoms mountable on Large class ships only, likewise give Medium class ships skycap
If you need to further joggle it beyond messing with the price:
Decrease the model size of all Medium caps by 10%
Decrease the model size of all Large Caps by 5%
Make nukes less powerful
Decrease the cost of the missile frigate and it's turret capacity
Even the costs for SY out - 10k for the con, lower the price on the midrange caps
To go with the lowered costs lower the power of the basic level of capitals by a small amount - A lower hull on the corv and attack carrier
Make skycap unavailable to the basic level of capital ship - a full AC on the corv and attack carrier should be enough for basics (maybe provide a version of AC for cap ships so that they don't need a sup for ultimate goodies)
Decrease Dis dmg to Cap hull, increase Gat damage to hull accordingly - this should prevent dis from being the auto cap killer
Make longtoms mountable on Large class ships only, likewise give Medium class ships skycap
If you need to further joggle it beyond messing with the price:
Decrease the model size of all Medium caps by 10%
Decrease the model size of all Large Caps by 5%
Make nukes less powerful
Decrease the cost of the missile frigate and it's turret capacity
Get over yourselves, don't try to win arguments on the internet where the option of a punch in the mouth is unavailable
"It is not that I cannot create anything good, but that I will not." And to prove this, he created the peacock.