Okay, right now you need both a techbase and Starbase (upgraded Garrison) to research Hvy Scouts. That's fine, because Rix Hvy Scout rushes used to be uber. HOWEVER, they are not (AFAIK) tied to Starbase, which means even if you kill the opponent's starbase they keep Hvy Scouts if they still have a techbase. This, IMO is unbalanced.
Now I'm no core expert but perhaps there is a way to tie Hvy Scouts to Starbase so if you lose your Starbase, you lose Hvy Scouts, plus they still need a techbase to be researched.
If that isn't possible, then Sup, Tac and Exp should have them as a researchable option but only if you have a Starbase, because right now it makes factions like BIOS and Belters much more powerful than they should be. Hvy Scouts are vicious machines of death, and they are exceedingly hard to get rid of, because they keep them with a techbase. So that means you have to kill the techbase to get rid of them...and if you can do that, they weren't a threat anyway. But this is often not the case so you will find an enemy with no starbase and a techbase running around with Hvy Scouts.
Hvy Scouts being tied to Starbase
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amsunaakage
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Tie the @#$#@ to the base.
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Wrong, no Starbase needed, if you have already have AdvScouts researched.CronoDroid wrote:QUOTE (CronoDroid @ Dec 2 2008, 01:49 PM) Okay, right now you need both a techbase and Starbase (upgraded Garrison) to research Hvy Scouts. That's fine, because Rix Hvy Scout rushes used to be uber.
Nobody wondered about the HvyScouts devel in Garr tech tree, if the enemy bombed the Starbase?
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
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CronoDroid
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Yes so pkk's point is more of a nitpick. You will have paid for a starbase anyway unless you are Bios
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I dont get it, adv techbases are easier to kill than starbases. You are making it harder to get rid of them....
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CronoDroid
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How is it harder? You could have a backup Tac in some @#(!ty little sector off in the middle of nowhere and you STILL keep Heavy Scouts. They might be easier to kill (which in reality isn't the case as most teams will defend their techbase better than their Starbase) but they're also half as much as a new garrison.
Seeing as you keep all other garrison/starbase tech, it would be a little weird to get rid of just hvy scouts. Should we make gunships dependent as well? Heavy bombers? Quickfire 3?
Perhaps it is a necessary tweak, and the fact that keep other starbase tech doesn't matter. I'm not half of certain of it as you are though.
Perhaps it is a necessary tweak, and the fact that keep other starbase tech doesn't matter. I'm not half of certain of it as you are though.
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CronoDroid
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Gunships suck (unless you have Long Toms in which case you should be trying to kill the SY anyway), Heavy Bombers aren't half as useful as Hvy Scouts in defence and Quickfire 3...well, it's Quickfire 3.
I'm almost certain back in the day (DN 4.4x) that you would lose Hvy Scouts if you lost Starbase. These are my main concerns:
-Hvy Scouts have a huge scan range, making it very hard to organise any endgame strategies.
-Hvy Scouts are effective miner killers, especially in packs.
-Hvy Scouts can also defend themselves. This means if they stumble on an enemy endgame-tech thing (HTT, TP2'er, SB) they can quickly and easily deal with it. Ints and Figs don't have the scan to go out seeking foes, and to a lesser extent SFs don't either.
-Hvy Scouts can both prox alephs and kill things that come through.
-Hvy Scouts also have very low sig.
So it means that in regular games if you manage to take out the enemy garrison (usually as a stepping stone to gain access to the enemy's techbase), they can still run around with Hvy Scouts and make ending the game next to impossible. And in pretty much any game it's easier to take out an enemy's garrison than it is to take out their techbase due to the psychological factor of defending a techbase.
Another point to make is that Hvy Scouts is like the Starbase's adv tech ship. If you lose your Adv Exp, you lose Hvy Ints, Adv Sup, Adv Figs. You don't get to keep Hvy Ints if you still have a Tac somewhere. The same doesn't apply to other Starbase tech because they're no where near as useful as Hvy Scouts in most tactical situations.
I'm almost certain back in the day (DN 4.4x) that you would lose Hvy Scouts if you lost Starbase. These are my main concerns:
-Hvy Scouts have a huge scan range, making it very hard to organise any endgame strategies.
-Hvy Scouts are effective miner killers, especially in packs.
-Hvy Scouts can also defend themselves. This means if they stumble on an enemy endgame-tech thing (HTT, TP2'er, SB) they can quickly and easily deal with it. Ints and Figs don't have the scan to go out seeking foes, and to a lesser extent SFs don't either.
-Hvy Scouts can both prox alephs and kill things that come through.
-Hvy Scouts also have very low sig.
So it means that in regular games if you manage to take out the enemy garrison (usually as a stepping stone to gain access to the enemy's techbase), they can still run around with Hvy Scouts and make ending the game next to impossible. And in pretty much any game it's easier to take out an enemy's garrison than it is to take out their techbase due to the psychological factor of defending a techbase.
Another point to make is that Hvy Scouts is like the Starbase's adv tech ship. If you lose your Adv Exp, you lose Hvy Ints, Adv Sup, Adv Figs. You don't get to keep Hvy Ints if you still have a Tac somewhere. The same doesn't apply to other Starbase tech because they're no where near as useful as Hvy Scouts in most tactical situations.