Wiki: Why is HELO broken and can it be repaired?
This is the discussion topic for the wiki article: Why is HELO broken and can it be repaired?
Usually though, "skill" is used to covertly mean "match the game exactly to my level of competence." Anyone who is at all worse than me should fail utterly (and humorously!) and anyone better is clearly too caught up in the game and their opinions shouldn't count.
QUOTE There are a number of ways in which useful information leaks from Helo, and we'll cover one of them here: The newbie helper function (NHF).
The NHF was implemented in an effort to provide some degree of 'Alleg Age' functionality to Helo. Players below rank 15 are deducted less points for a loss than they would otherwise have been deducted in a pure HALO-Elo implementation. It can be said that by artificially increasing a players rank outside of the statistical framework of a ranking system (in this case by dumbing down losses), the information contained in that players loss is being discarded, or is leaking from the system.[/quote]
Wasn't this removed from Helo?
The NHF was implemented in an effort to provide some degree of 'Alleg Age' functionality to Helo. Players below rank 15 are deducted less points for a loss than they would otherwise have been deducted in a pure HALO-Elo implementation. It can be said that by artificially increasing a players rank outside of the statistical framework of a ranking system (in this case by dumbing down losses), the information contained in that players loss is being discarded, or is leaking from the system.[/quote]
Wasn't this removed from Helo?
Usually though, "skill" is used to covertly mean "match the game exactly to my level of competence." Anyone who is at all worse than me should fail utterly (and humorously!) and anyone better is clearly too caught up in the game and their opinions shouldn't count.
I have the actual SQL used for Helo, and unless it's been removed, the Newbie Helper Function is still alive and well.
The problem with post launch auto balance is that it seemingly makes no effort to keep even player numbers. This, being the very first paradigm of what constitutes a balanced game of allegiance, is a major flaw. I've experimented with various system for PLAB within the AllegSkill framework, all of which attempt to maintain a numbers-balance. Given that people can join/leave at their own leisure, the problem of maintaining a balanced game is certainly non-trivial. This aspect of the system was the main thread of development before work ground to a halt in January. Another difficult aspect of developing a PLAB system is that it's next to impossible to factor human behaviour into the calculations when testing on old game data. I strongly suspect that the community would do it's very best to circumvent a PLAB system so that they could still fly for their preferred comm/team/faction.
Making stacked games not count is probably the easiest short-term fix for Helo. Whilst this wouldn't go any distance towards fixing the innate flaws within the system, it might provide a certain impetus towards modifying people's stacking behaviour.
The problem with post launch auto balance is that it seemingly makes no effort to keep even player numbers. This, being the very first paradigm of what constitutes a balanced game of allegiance, is a major flaw. I've experimented with various system for PLAB within the AllegSkill framework, all of which attempt to maintain a numbers-balance. Given that people can join/leave at their own leisure, the problem of maintaining a balanced game is certainly non-trivial. This aspect of the system was the main thread of development before work ground to a halt in January. Another difficult aspect of developing a PLAB system is that it's next to impossible to factor human behaviour into the calculations when testing on old game data. I strongly suspect that the community would do it's very best to circumvent a PLAB system so that they could still fly for their preferred comm/team/faction.
Making stacked games not count is probably the easiest short-term fix for Helo. Whilst this wouldn't go any distance towards fixing the innate flaws within the system, it might provide a certain impetus towards modifying people's stacking behaviour.
Granary Sergeant Baker - Special Bread Service (Wurf - 13th Oct 2011)
(Agreed, Juck)
Thanks Baker!
TB
(Thread was cleaned up - Adept's clueless crap removed as well as MrC/SgtB's reasons for HELO suckage)
Thanks Baker!
TB
(Thread was cleaned up - Adept's clueless crap removed as well as MrC/SgtB's reasons for HELO suckage)
Last edited by TheBored on Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
[18:48] <Imago> dont take me seriouslyspideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ Nov 28 2008, 02:50 PM) All the retards are contained in one squad mostly (System X)
/cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="
" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /> about the edit TB
My point was Baker knows most and I probably know the rest regarding the ins and outs of this subject. 100s of hours of working on it tends to make you have keen insight into the hairy details. Editing without clue is well just bad and that was pretty much my only point. Sorry for the pot stir it was unintentional, poor form, and Ive been properly admonished by myself.
Hugs for All
MrChaos
" border="0" alt="cool.gif" /> about the edit TBMy point was Baker knows most and I probably know the rest regarding the ins and outs of this subject. 100s of hours of working on it tends to make you have keen insight into the hairy details. Editing without clue is well just bad and that was pretty much my only point. Sorry for the pot stir it was unintentional, poor form, and Ive been properly admonished by myself.
Hugs for All
MrChaos
Ssssh
TB cleaned the thread? And I posted reasons for "Elo" suckage? Please moderate your moderation. You know what I mean. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
*Edited for smiley*
Edit2: Isn't my comment out of context without Adept's contributions?
*Edited for smiley*
Edit2: Isn't my comment out of context without Adept's contributions?
Last edited by sgt_baker on Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Granary Sergeant Baker - Special Bread Service (Wurf - 13th Oct 2011)
Done, H + ELO = HELO /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />
Your post still answers the original question /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
TB
Your post still answers the original question /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
TB
[18:48] <Imago> dont take me seriouslyspideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ Nov 28 2008, 02:50 PM) All the retards are contained in one squad mostly (System X)