More Rank Fun!

Post by **Pook** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:46 pm

In an effort to stop the "I didn't know I was a newbie why did I get kicked off the newbie server" madness, I'm going to implement a change in the ranking system.

This system yields similar ranks but works on a different principle. Since the system isn't based on the midpoint, we will no longer have a newbie modifier as a rank component. So if you create an account 3 years ago but play once, when you come back you'll still be a newbie. If you are a vet and you only play once a month - chances are your rank will reflect that.

We've simply got WAY to many problems with the midpoint-based ranking system (ELO) and I'm going to try a different win/loss system that's based on the Bungie Halo2 ranking system. We'll call it HELO.

Code will be swapping out very soon, with recalculations shortly afterwards.

EDIT #1: Code changes are implemented and ranks are recalculating right now. Sorry for doing this in the middle of the day but I have to work on it when I have the time available... /doh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doh:" border="0" alt="doh.gif" />

EDIT #2: Recalc is completed. If you're currently signed in, you'll have to sign out and back in again to see your new rank.

Post by **TheBored** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:58 pm

Not HARO?

Well, cool beans Pook. We'll see how this turns out /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

TB

Jonan · Post by **Jonan** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:05 pm

No chance of keeping the current one updating as a refererence?

Malicious Wraith · Post by **Malicious Wraith** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:40 pm

Jonan wrote:QUOTE (Jonan @ Mar 17 2007, 11:05 AM) No chance of keeping the current one updating as a refererence?

Lol, Helo. I hope I dont lose my top 35 spot >.>!

NAVYBOY · Post by **NAVYBOY** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:50 pm

Here is my 2 cents....

Issue #1 - People Say ELO is not important....my response...

1) If ELO "is not important" then take it from being posted in my face everytime I play. Go ahead and calculate all you want, whatever way you want, and you can even put the total TEAM "ELO", but DO NOT show it next to my name.

Issue #2 - ELO is not fair or calculated correctly.

2) I agree, and hopefully this HELO way of doing it will make it better. My problem with calculating based on play... is that some of us have jobs and such, so we cant be in Alleg 8 hours a day. But ... some of us... i.e. ME have been playing Alleg since 1999. Are you going to make it retro?

Issue #3 - Why isn't the Senate responsible for changes to ELO system?

3) I am all about Democracy... Why when we have these abrupt changes to ranking, are people not engaged or told about it in advance? Does the Senate review these changes, provide inputs, send out notifications? I do not like it when in the middle of the night at 3AM someone makes a change where it affects me directly. Maybe if people were asked what they want... you would be able to make a ranking system that is generally more accepted by the people who helped create it in the first place. "For the people.... BY THE PEOPLE"...

Fighting for Democracy!

NAVYBOY

apathos · Post by **apathos** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:00 pm

NAVYBOY wrote:QUOTE (NAVYBOY @ Mar 17 2007, 03:50 PM) 3) I am all about Democracy... Why when we have these abrupt changes to ranking, are people not engaged or told about it in advance? Does the Senate review these changes, provide inputs, send out notifications? I do not like it when in the middle of the night at 3AM someone makes a change where it affects me directly. Maybe if people were asked what they want... you would be able to make a ranking system that is generally more accepted by the people who helped create it in the first place. "For the people.... BY THE PEOPLE"...
Fighting for Democracy!

NAVYBOY

Maybe if the people would spend the hours coming up with an effective plan, discussing it to work out the problems, writing the code, asking for input, and testing it thoroughly, they could have a democratic system.

Pook has said several times--set it up and present it, and he'd be more than happy to see how people feel about it. Right now all he gets for his effort is whiners.

I for one am immensely grateful for what Pook does with this, and am amazed that he stays with it. I look forward to the results of this change.

Sorry to be so harsh, Navyboy, but no one ever said this was a democracy. Pook gives his time for our benefit. Like it or lump it.

Post by **Pook** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:09 pm

Navy,

I never said this was a democracy. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

Anyway these changes are in DIRECT RESPONSE to things people have been asking for. Why don't you check my blog where the discussion's been going on.

As far as making it retroactive back to 1999 - do you have the data? I'm making it retroactive back to the beginning of R3 when we did our last stats wipe.

apathos · Post by **apathos** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:21 pm

Pook,

Not sure if this is the best place, but the recent games gave both teams a -1. One team had an "ELO" of -357. Is this to be expected for the time being? Or is it just goofy because this game was in the middle of the recalc?

FlingPu · Post by **FlingPu** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:24 pm

And, I was just starting to understand ELO. /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":o" border="0" alt="blink.gif" /> /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Any links for the Bungie Halo2 ranking system?

Post by **Pook** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 8:30 pm

Apathos,

I had to retrofit this HELO system into the existing ELO tables, so some of the numbers look screwy. (I had actually started HELO before ELO)

"Team ELO" is the total point award for your entire team. Basically - the SUM of the points that everyone got. "Opponent ELO" is the same, but for your opponent.

So if "Team ELO" says "500" and "Opponent ELO" says -150, that means combined, your team gained 500 points and your opponents lost 150. How much each person gained or lost isn't shown... remember it differs based on the ranks of the individuals on both teams.

The "-1" values is my way of saying "N/A" - there is no Team adjustment nor is there an expected outcome under HELO. When I get time I plan on updating those screens.

FlingPu:

First, check out my blog... I did a kind of executive summary for HELO. Remember while it's BASED on the bungie system, the thresholds and such are different (obviously).

If you still want to read up on Bungie's, go to www.bungie.net, and at the very bottom there's a flash-navigation thingy that'll take you to it.