Free Allegiance Forums

Actually....

When we began to hunt for a ranking system for Allegiance any number of people were involved with many dropping out for various reasons from RL, through lose of interest, to leaving because things didn't go the way they envisioned. A very few of them I was secretly happy that they left since they were actually counter productive to the effort.

Endlessly arguing points that had already been decided, insulting at times even, "knowing" things without a shred of evidence, experience, or education in the matter... I came up with the self coined term "Wiki Genius" from my experiences working with them. They tied the entire process in knots, caused many hours of worthless time to be spent on the mundane, and causing the most esoteric arguing imaginable. It wasn't until we got down to a handful people that the ball got rolling at all (Bard, Terra, Baker, myself etc) and even then it became a one man band (Baker) with an annoying bastard pointing out issues within the code ( ) in a relatively short span of time.

Help, even enthusatic help, can actually be harmfully to the efforts if they can not work in a group. That being said I don't know if The Count or Imago or *insert person C* fits anything of the above *shrug* my two cents based on a successful implementation of something in the community

w0dk4 wrote:QUOTE (w0dk4 @ Jun 21 2009, 11:45 AM) For FAZ Weds to really work, the main lobby has to be SHUT DOWN or REDIRECTED to get the people to actually play the beta for their own's good of playing a better version of Alleg sometime in the future FFS

that is enough

Actually a seamless install needs to be developed so the end user doesn't have to jiggle the bits to get the beta and live versions to work. I hesitate to particpate given some prior experiences with the release version getting borked for the Wednesday testing, if this has been remedied then someone probably needs to state it and not just in the damn developers forum.

For what it's worth, Imago's been distributing zip's of revision builds of FAZR5 applications and dll's and artwork. First timers had to set up their 1.1 keys (and I'm trying to make this automated, unless somebody brings Madpeople's key creator out of the depths of the boards), then it was just a matter of unzipping (to the right place) and launching (at least, that's all I had to do with Allegiance.exe; server and lobby needed a few dll's registered).

I think that's the smoothest you can realistically get without bothering TE to put the beta stuff on ASGS AU.

Badp wrote:QUOTE (Badp @ Jun 21 2009, 05:19 PM) For what it's worth, Imago's been distributing zip's of revision builds of FAZR5 applications and dll's and artwork. First timers had to set up their 1.1 keys (and I'm trying to make this automated, unless somebody brings Madpeople's key creator out of the depths of the boards), then it was just a matter of unzipping (to the right place) and launching (at least, that's all I had to do with Allegiance.exe; server and lobby needed a few dll's registered).

I think that's the smoothest you can realistically get without bothering TE to put the beta stuff on ASGS AU.

Not good enough IMHO until you can install the beta seamlessly and it causes no issues with the live version. Sorry Badp makes me feel bad saying it, especially to you, but Im going on human nature, my experiences in the community etc etc. Mark me down as sitting out Wednesday beta testing until the dev group gets on the same page, (Imago has a version isn't an official version just Imago's version is all... no knock at Imago) and gets an installer that works better.


Your Sad Pal
MrChaos

I understand we all love one1 click solutions, and we do have one, it's called ASGS Beta Mode, the latest feature added into ASGS. However, zipping is realistically the only way you can test those rough builds. It's just not worth the time to make installers and install (with start menu clutter) versions of Allegiance that get outdated a few hours later (finding bugs to outdate the builds is actually the point here).

When a build that looks polished enough is made, it can be sent to DB/TE/etc. to put it up on ASGS, but for now it'd just be the harmful kind of bureaucratic bottleneck you listed as deal killer just a few posts ago. Building/Running installers/uninstaller would also be rather useless overhead, most of the issues at this stage can be found on training missions.

As for not causing problems with the live version, the live and the beta version use different registry keys to set different paths to run and different lobbies to connect to. They don't overlap at all except for the common artwork..

1Or rather, as Windows installers are, double click then pound on next till it becomes finish and panic when a message box comes up

nice post KGJV

R5Contrib and R5Dev are merged, R5Contrib now has the leading revision.
http://www.freeallegiance.org/forums/index...showtopic=48632

I know you wont stand for that so you better fix something, fast!

Badp wrote:QUOTE (Badp @ Jun 21 2009, 05:37 PM) I understand we all love one1 click solutions, and we do have one, it's called ASGS Beta Mode, the latest feature added into ASGS. However, zipping is realistically the only way you can test those rough builds. It's just not worth the time to make installers and install (with start menu clutter) versions of Allegiance that get outdated a few hours later (finding bugs to outdate the builds is actually the point here).

When a build that looks polished enough is made, it can be sent to DB/TE/etc. to put it up on ASGS, but for now it'd just be the harmful kind of bureaucratic bottleneck you listed as deal killer just a few posts ago. Building/Running installers/uninstaller would also be rather useless overhead, most of the issues at this stage can be found on training missions.

As for not causing problems with the live version, the live and the beta version use different registry keys to set different paths to run and different lobbies to connect to. They don't overlap at all except for the common artwork..

1Or rather, as Windows installers are, double click then pound on next till it becomes finish and panic when a message box comes up

IMHO it's absolutely worth the time, and why you get for @#(! participation. Someone being a bottleneck and something being a bottleneck are two very different issues badp. We can argue this all day and night but Im telling you from a semi-intellegent end user POV, who has been burned before installing a beta test, and having to have to jiggle way to many bits to get it to work before, during, and after I'm sitting it out until someone does a better job of: informing us outside the damn developer forums of what is going on, and gets the installs under better control.

Until you make the beta testing user friendly it will not get better participation IMHO. Oh and stopping the epeen infighting amongst the big dawgs would make me more enthuastic too.

It seems as if Im being a dickhead maybe I am but Ive felt this way for a looong time and Im simply sharing my POV. Ive refrained all this time because of the deep personal respect I have for DB, you and others who do a bunch of work behind the scenes. At the end of the day it's just one Chaotic view and honestly you probably have a clearer picture of things then I do as the end user

MrChaos

edit: W0dk4 *rings the clue bell for me* Thanks man it seems as if I didn't understand badp was talking about something entirely different.

Badp wrote:QUOTE (Badp @ Jun 22 2009, 12:37 AM) I understand we all love one1 click solutions, and we do have one, it's called ASGS Beta Mode, the latest feature added into ASGS. However, zipping is realistically the only way you can test those rough builds. It's just not worth the time to make installers and install (with start menu clutter) versions of Allegiance that get outdated a few hours later (finding bugs to outdate the builds is actually the point here).

When a build that looks polished enough is made, it can be sent to DB/TE/etc. to put it up on ASGS, but for now it'd just be the harmful kind of bureaucratic bottleneck you listed as deal killer just a few posts ago. Building/Running installers/uninstaller would also be rather useless overhead, most of the issues at this stage can be found on training missions.

As for not causing problems with the live version, the live and the beta version use different registry keys to set different paths to run and different lobbies to connect to. They don't overlap at all except for the common artwork..

1Or rather, as Windows installers are, double click then pound on next till it becomes finish and panic when a message box comes up

Chaos was referring to my FAZ Weds comment, and those beta version that are (or should) be played on FAZ Weds are not rough builds that get outdated in hours.
For the work Imago did on the x64 version, how he did it on IRC is perfectly fine, but as soon as there is gameplay to be tested, there has to be an easy accessible way to install and play the beta.

But yeah, if the admins cannot be bothered, we are on a dead end here, just like we have been the past year or two (regarding FAZ Weds).

Imago wrote:QUOTE (Imago @ Jun 22 2009, 12:42 AM) nice post KGJV

R5Contrib and R5Dev are merged, R5Contrib now has the leading revision.
http://www.freeallegiance.org/forums/index...showtopic=48632

I know you wont stand for that so you better fix something, fast!

yeah nice necroposting too. you just illustrated my point.

gj 'Wiki Genius' (tx MrChaos for that perfect name!), another of your brilliant initiatives with no explanations, comments and as well as no respect for the commit rules we have.

You just once again showed why you can't work on a TEAM PROJECT. It's not about been good or doing anything good (you're sub-average as a programmer actually). This actually has nothing to do about it. It's about trust, it's about following simple rules and above all it's about COMMUNICATING with the team and understanding the big picture.

you, sir, remains a 'time eater' / 'Wiki Genius' and I won't waste anymore of my time with you.

And if other ppl want to waste time (by dling .zip files wich will require special extra dlls i bet), it's up to them, they've been warned.

should i just kill myself now then?