New client update!

Wasp · Post by **Wasp** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:26 pm

My point is; Cash is absolutely right when it comes to adding "features". There is way too much ambition and not near enough conversation, testing and refinement of those features.

My example is that someone had it in their mind to make that help window so huge that in resolutions of 1024x768 or less, the window can't be closed without knowing to hit the F1 key.

Whomever made that window so large should have tested it in all resolutions, determined that if it was going to be too large for lower resolutions then to make it so that the user can close that oversized window by doing the most logical thing 1. Clicking on "Help" again (but since it's not a toggle) they would then 2. Hit the ESC key (which doesn't close that help window). So, if they don't know to then hit the F1 key, they are forced to exit the game.

Just a little thought put into that "feature" could have made the esc key close that help window when the oversized gigantic thing pops open on a lower resolution.

EDIT: I'll go further to say that the keymap shouldn't even be in the help menu at all. It should be a sub menu of the keymap menu and represent YOUR specific key mapping so that any changes in ESC G C is represented on that keyboard image.

EDIT2: Simply putting the "WIKI DISCORD CLOSE" menu on the help image where any resolution could access it, would have sufficed. Just a little thought is all that's needed, but, there doesn't seem to be a proper avenue for that when features are added at the developer's discretion.

Bunnywabbit · Post by **Bunnywabbit** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:39 pm

hey, that was me

Yeah, we should have put the button menu bottom left, and/or allowed the think to be shrunk for reses lower than 1366x768. I didn't really bother with anything lower than that because who the hell plays games in 800x600 anymore? Turns out some Alleg vets do. Go figure.

(Side note: at what point do you feel Allegiance should stop supporting hardware? Do you want to keep supporting 800x600 when 4k monitors eventually become mainstream?)

Anyway, not a lot of thought went into that part - it was always intended as a stop - gap measure because the keymap we had was goddamn awful and needed to be replaced with something useable like 10 years ago, but there was no way to communicate the new mapping and the f1 help menu was just sitting there being useless so we threw it out and used that.

So yeah, not a lot of thought went into that bit. It should have gotten more love than it did. It was going to get more love than it did (we were planning to make an entirely new f1 menu), but there you go. Job needed to be done, no one competent was around to do it so me and Spinny got our hands dirty.

Feel free to step in and make something better.

Mastametz · Post by **Mastametz** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:40 pm

It's easier to see shots landing on targets at 800x600 and historically the UI hasn't scaled well with res changes - don't know if that's been improved lately

Vortrog · Post by **Vortrog** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:52 pm

true dat

and thats why I think a lot also play with debris off, particle effects off, trails off, flare off and pretty much everything else off (old gat 3 mod was a good example of this...bullets smaller). All that matters is projectiles and targets

silly I guess coming from me. All that matters is speed + yourship + my prox and all the other effects I cant see in the rear vision mirror anyway

Mastametz · Post by **Mastametz** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:19 pm

At one point I made everything look like TF minigun projectiles

Wasp · Post by **Wasp** » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:42 pm

Who cares about that damn F1 key map.

My point is that all changes must be looked at from every perspective and that requires feedback from other players. It isn't that features are unwanted, they just need to be refined in concept BEFORE placed into code.

The devs seem ready and willing but I think the feedback loop needs improvement.

Post by **zombywoof** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:06 am

Bunnywabbit wrote:QUOTE (Bunnywabbit @ Mar 15 2018, 02:39 PM) Yeah, we should have put the button menu bottom left, and/or allowed the think to be shrunk for reses lower than 1366x768. I didn't really bother with anything lower than that because who the hell plays games in 800x600 anymore? Turns out some Alleg vets do. Go figure.

There's an XKCD for that.

QUOTE (Side note: at what point do you feel Allegiance should stop supporting hardware? Do you want to keep supporting 800x600 when 4k monitors eventually become mainstream?)[/quote]
And that too.

QUOTE Anyway, not a lot of thought went into that part - it was always intended as a stop - gap measure because the keymap we had was goddamn awful and needed to be replaced with something useable like 10 years ago, but there was no way to communicate the new mapping and the f1 help menu was just sitting there being useless so we threw it out and used that.

So yeah, not a lot of thought went into that bit. It should have gotten more love than it did. It was going to get more love than it did (we were planning to make an entirely new f1 menu), but there you go. Job needed to be done, no one competent was around to do it so me and Spinny got our hands dirty.

Feel free to step in and make something better.[/quote]
The only real concern I had with it was this: I map f1 to "rear view." Somehow I ended up in the help menu (I think maybe I was in base? I'm not entirely sure on the details it was months ago) and couldn't close it because a) I play at 800x600 and b) don't have "toggle help menu" mapped. For me it was just a mild annoyance because I had to resize my window until I could click the red X, then resize back. I think I also ran into an unusual problem where the f1 help menu was laid on top of the options menu, so maaaaybe I had to actually relog to fix? I'm not sure.

This is obviously a weird corner case, but it got me thinking about a newbie who accidentally bumps the f1 key while trying to type "1" or their cat jumps on it or whatever, and perhaps they can't figure out how to close the window. I dunno. I don't really care what goes into the f1 menu because I doubt I will ever use it again, I just wanted to bring to attention that once entering the f1 menu a condition existed where there was no obvious way to get out of it and proposed we move the little "x" to close the menu to the lower left.

I was probably rude as $#@! about it tho

cashto · Post by **cashto** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:29 am

Look, @#(! gets broken, especially in edge cases no one could possibly have imagined. It's the nature of the beast. It gets fixed and we move on.

But when it comes to miner AI, that's a very delicate topic, you really want to do your research on that and get buyoff from the people before they ream you out for $#@!ing up their flow. Sure, everyone agrees miner AI is crap. Everyone also agrees it could be much, much worse.

It may be less controversial if you put the changes behind some new UI. Let commanders customize how they want their miners to work. Make some way for comms to save/load their favorite settings. Sure, it may be a lot more work, but it's also the gateway to be able to try all sorts of crazy things without needing to get consensus on every change. Forget central planning, let the market decide what's good.

Post by **zombywoof** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:25 am

What are you some kind of capitalist?