more like mass driver mini guns!HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Feb 27 2009, 11:20 AM) We need int bombers! Sup has fig bombers, tac has stealth bombers, its only logical to have int bombers
Interceptor signature
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WhiskeyGhost
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Apologies in advance but I think its a terrible idea 
It would make stealthy HTTing almost impossible. Imho a proper HTT run needs at least 1-2 Int's supporting the run otherwise the first defenders launching will simply slaughter the run and there's nothing the HTT/nan crew can do about it. The escort int plays a crucial role in preventing that and buys the HTT the extra seconds it needs to capture successfully. Now imagine the effects of a high signature escort int for such a run
Ints would be put at a severe disadvantage in their traditional, most likely intended roles. For example:
-> Ints that defend Miners against StealthFighters, Fighters in 1vs1 scenarios
---> SFs could simply hunter/sniper them at save range and Figs would be in a similar comfortable position to slob seekers at the int and make him attack while staying out of range..
-> Ints that sit near bases Bases against SBs, TP2 drops (these guys would have such an easy time knowing the right moment to go)
I am wondering about the motivation behind this. These days I can't really see Exp dominating games as much as it used to be and maybe I am blind but I hardly see the average Int pilot sneaking 2 sectors to solo Miners with success either. Usually its done by good/exceptional players that can predict the nme economy, use good timing and sometimes setup in a sector even before the nme was knowing that he would be going to mine there!
I mean if your miners are caught pants down it its also owned to bad base placement, not managing them or a team that doesn't setup sufficient defense and reacts slowly.
Regards
grav@RT
ps: Of course, feel free to proof me wrong in coming Exp games
It would make stealthy HTTing almost impossible. Imho a proper HTT run needs at least 1-2 Int's supporting the run otherwise the first defenders launching will simply slaughter the run and there's nothing the HTT/nan crew can do about it. The escort int plays a crucial role in preventing that and buys the HTT the extra seconds it needs to capture successfully. Now imagine the effects of a high signature escort int for such a run
Ints would be put at a severe disadvantage in their traditional, most likely intended roles. For example:
-> Ints that defend Miners against StealthFighters, Fighters in 1vs1 scenarios
---> SFs could simply hunter/sniper them at save range and Figs would be in a similar comfortable position to slob seekers at the int and make him attack while staying out of range..
-> Ints that sit near bases Bases against SBs, TP2 drops (these guys would have such an easy time knowing the right moment to go)
I am wondering about the motivation behind this. These days I can't really see Exp dominating games as much as it used to be and maybe I am blind but I hardly see the average Int pilot sneaking 2 sectors to solo Miners with success either. Usually its done by good/exceptional players that can predict the nme economy, use good timing and sometimes setup in a sector even before the nme was knowing that he would be going to mine there!
I mean if your miners are caught pants down it its also owned to bad base placement, not managing them or a team that doesn't setup sufficient defense and reacts slowly.
Regards
grav@RT
ps: Of course, feel free to proof me wrong in coming Exp games
Last edited by gr4vity on Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"WyldKarde@RT: It's like the Picard Manouver, but with more hair."
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WhiskeyGhost
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- Location: Gulf Coast, guess which one?
To grav:
1. Doesn't matter if ints have 100% sig, they would have the same signature as HTT's. If anything this might be beneficial for spotting eye in front of a run easier with an int. You won't be giving away your HTT unless by some odd reasoning your boosting around or wandering about instead of being with the run.
2. At 100% signature, you wouldn't be at a great disadvantage, and with signature GA's, you can give yourself more breathing room. At 100% an Advanced Fighter would still have to be within 800m of you to see you, and a stealth fighter would need 1600m. Add in signature GA's, and you give yourself some extra room, and add pulse probe and spotting stealths shouldn't be an issue (although you shouldn't be solo on miner D against tactical anyways!). It would likely only perk Tactical against solo defenders, and maybe give figs a second longer after spotting them before they die.
3. Motivation changes from person to person, but my motivation is how ints promote the Quake in Space "I'm a hero! pew pew pew! Watch me win this game single handedly against a team!" concept to Alleg. Any poorly coordinated miner offense should fail against a coordinated defense, but Expansion is the exception to this, but on top of it they also get to be stealthy as well? You can't setup in sector to raid enemy miners with fighters (signature is too bloated to hide), and on top of that if the miners are heavily defended, your best shot is to use INTS rather then SF's, especially so if the enemy has Pulse probes, or camps alephs, plus the ints require less timing because of how quickly they move (someone late to the party requires less time to catch up and it takes much less time to move into position if there isn't enough probes to actually spot you, plus you also reach the enemy miners faster which gives less time for people to launch to defend).
The point is that ints are stealthy, for a ship loaded out to be a fast, hard hitting, highly armored death dealer in combat, it's got an obscenely low 'base' signature, considering it also has signature reduction upgrades in it's techpath.
These are just my opinions mind you, and you of course have your own as well, but these are my responses to what you've said
1. Doesn't matter if ints have 100% sig, they would have the same signature as HTT's. If anything this might be beneficial for spotting eye in front of a run easier with an int. You won't be giving away your HTT unless by some odd reasoning your boosting around or wandering about instead of being with the run.
2. At 100% signature, you wouldn't be at a great disadvantage, and with signature GA's, you can give yourself more breathing room. At 100% an Advanced Fighter would still have to be within 800m of you to see you, and a stealth fighter would need 1600m. Add in signature GA's, and you give yourself some extra room, and add pulse probe and spotting stealths shouldn't be an issue (although you shouldn't be solo on miner D against tactical anyways!). It would likely only perk Tactical against solo defenders, and maybe give figs a second longer after spotting them before they die.
3. Motivation changes from person to person, but my motivation is how ints promote the Quake in Space "I'm a hero! pew pew pew! Watch me win this game single handedly against a team!" concept to Alleg. Any poorly coordinated miner offense should fail against a coordinated defense, but Expansion is the exception to this, but on top of it they also get to be stealthy as well? You can't setup in sector to raid enemy miners with fighters (signature is too bloated to hide), and on top of that if the miners are heavily defended, your best shot is to use INTS rather then SF's, especially so if the enemy has Pulse probes, or camps alephs, plus the ints require less timing because of how quickly they move (someone late to the party requires less time to catch up and it takes much less time to move into position if there isn't enough probes to actually spot you, plus you also reach the enemy miners faster which gives less time for people to launch to defend).
The point is that ints are stealthy, for a ship loaded out to be a fast, hard hitting, highly armored death dealer in combat, it's got an obscenely low 'base' signature, considering it also has signature reduction upgrades in it's techpath.
These are just my opinions mind you, and you of course have your own as well, but these are my responses to what you've said
Rand0m_Numb3r wrote:QUOTE (Rand0m_Numb3r @ Aug 9 2007, 12:27 AM)CURSES I HAVE BEEN DEFEATED!
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badpazzword
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My only point about int sig is that each int of any faction should be able to eye any other (uncloaked) int 400m away of any other faction at parity of technology, which is not always the case.
Last edited by badpazzword on Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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I think ints are a bit overpowered, or rather, a bit too flexible. The very fact that virtually all veterans prefer to fly ints in so many different circumstances says something. I mean, in practice, every tech path in allegiance should have some degree of flexibility, of course. It wouldn't be a very fun game if interceptors were completely incapable of anything besides defending a base. However, that should be their primary function, and that is what their abilities should be heavily weighted towards. And that doesn't require stealth.
If the problem is that stealth fighters could pick off ints from a distance if ints are easier to see, then there can be other solutions. For example, split the Pulse Probe tech into PP1 and PP2, with PP1 being less effective than today's Pulse Probes, but quicker and cheaper to research. Then ints would have an easier time defending against stealth.
But making them low-sig doesn't just make them better defenders -- it also makes them better attackers. And it just doesn't make sense to have one ship that's super-strong on both the attack and the defence.
However, I personally would prefer to see interceptors' fuel and ammo capacities reduced, instead. Their low sig doesn't strike me as as much of a problem (plus, it doesn't make "sense" for them to have high sig - they're a fuel tank with guns attached, and don't have all the high-tech stuff something like a fighter would have). But their ability to boost across the map and kill everything, does. Again, there should be a balance, they shouldn't be made so limited as to not be fun to fly -- but they're meant to be a short-range ship, and right now they aren't really any more short-range than the fighter. Really, in terms of range and flexibility, teleport + figs = outpost + ints. The only difference is that they can't rip back home, but then, fighters are easier to pod, and pods take a long time to get home too.
For experienced players, ints are a fun ship to fly, so I don't think it should be nerfed *too* much. To some extent, the int's effectiveness is a reward for the vet's ability to fly it properly. Less experienced pilots don't get nearly as much out of it. However, today, it still seems to me that Expansion is often seen as the "default" tech path. Good for everything. It shouldn't be that way. So I think some slight nerf is needed. I'd prefer it to be a fuel and ammo nerf rather than a sig nerf, but if it's sig nerf or nothing, then sig them up.
If the problem is that stealth fighters could pick off ints from a distance if ints are easier to see, then there can be other solutions. For example, split the Pulse Probe tech into PP1 and PP2, with PP1 being less effective than today's Pulse Probes, but quicker and cheaper to research. Then ints would have an easier time defending against stealth.
But making them low-sig doesn't just make them better defenders -- it also makes them better attackers. And it just doesn't make sense to have one ship that's super-strong on both the attack and the defence.
However, I personally would prefer to see interceptors' fuel and ammo capacities reduced, instead. Their low sig doesn't strike me as as much of a problem (plus, it doesn't make "sense" for them to have high sig - they're a fuel tank with guns attached, and don't have all the high-tech stuff something like a fighter would have). But their ability to boost across the map and kill everything, does. Again, there should be a balance, they shouldn't be made so limited as to not be fun to fly -- but they're meant to be a short-range ship, and right now they aren't really any more short-range than the fighter. Really, in terms of range and flexibility, teleport + figs = outpost + ints. The only difference is that they can't rip back home, but then, fighters are easier to pod, and pods take a long time to get home too.
For experienced players, ints are a fun ship to fly, so I don't think it should be nerfed *too* much. To some extent, the int's effectiveness is a reward for the vet's ability to fly it properly. Less experienced pilots don't get nearly as much out of it. However, today, it still seems to me that Expansion is often seen as the "default" tech path. Good for everything. It shouldn't be that way. So I think some slight nerf is needed. I'd prefer it to be a fuel and ammo nerf rather than a sig nerf, but if it's sig nerf or nothing, then sig them up.
Last edited by Makida on Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why?Mr. Kltplzyxm wrote:QUOTE (Mr. Kltplzyxm @ Mar 3 2009, 09:26 PM) I think Wisky is on the money. 100% sig is probably the best and a good place to start. The only problem I can forsee might be in escorting Bios HTT but it might be fine with forcing int pilots to use their hvy cloaks.
Ints having 100% sig means Bios ints will still have lower sig due to faction modifiers, it will affect Bios the same as any other faction.
