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My 2 cents:

with GOOD VET COMMS this MAY <note the MAY> work.

but I think we will be seeing ALOT more mutiny/boot work

I can just see 2 #'s going Ohh fun! lets command on the vet server!! and then forcing people to play, mutiny is instant (is extreme example, but you get the idea)

so yes, go ahead, do this, I will happily be mutinying crappy comms all day. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Lykourgos wrote:QUOTE (Lykourgos @ Jul 25 2006, 12:57 PM) And the argument is that stacking a crappy game is a little bit of fun, while antistacking a crappy game is just painful.

Lykourgos, you know and I both know that the VAST majority of crappy games are caused by the stack. Maybe people have fun if they're the stacked side. But the few really good games any of us play are almost always games that are balanced. What you're doing is simply justifying stacking. I'm trying not to be nasty here, but c'mon, why not give a balancing system a fair shake instead of saying, literally, at least if we stack, we can have a bit of fun.

And to say, well, see the people who don't stack don't play anymore because they don't have any fun and therefore stacking is the only way to keep players or to have fun at this game is really a bit, hmmm, too honest?

Madacc wrote:As far as Freeza's comment, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

I'm not one of the people leaving right at the start; but as the super-vets (I'm not one) start leaving, I may end up going as well. Play a game with just voobs that don't listen; this is what I'm fearing will happen when primetime vets start doing other things.

Madacc wrote:The real problem is vet commanders not letting two voob comms duke it out and instead want to whore someone.

I said the problem was lack of equal commanders, you're saying the problem is unequal commanders. Why were you uncivil toward me? (see top quote)


I do have a certain expectation for a commander that I fly for. I don't have to fly for a super-comm, like aarm or night, to be content (I do happen to be happiest flying for them).

All I want is: someone that knows the tech paths; can decently manage an econ (Just making sure miners don't do stupid stuff is the big thing); can motivate the team; and that will listen to someone's, who is more experianced, advice. Many voob commanders don't/can't/won't do those things; so intelligent players, who want certain competence levels, won't fly for them.

Greator_SST wrote:QUOTE (Greator_SST @ Jul 26 2006, 04:06 AM) Lykourgos, you know and I both know that the VAST majority of crappy games are caused by the stack.

I think the stack is caused by imbalanced comms most of the time, and by bad settings the rest of the time. In other words, the game is usually going to be crappy even before it gets stacked. Agreed that sometimes the start of a good game is ruined later by a stack- but those games are by no means the vast majority of crappy games.

Note also that I said I'm giving it a fair shake. I just don't think it's going to work.

Lykourgos wrote:QUOTE (Lykourgos @ Jul 25 2006, 02:10 PM) I think the stack is caused by imbalanced comms most of the time

And people won't command because of the stack.

Freeza, I'm simply getting tired of hearing people complain about sucky players when the good players/great players whatever all say they want to play great games and yet when it comes down to actually playing a game they don't look for a challenge any longer, they simply stack.

So to those hypocrites I couldn't give a rat's ass whether they stay or not. Sucky players will not always be sucky players. They learn, if they don't learn they leave. RT was mostly cadets or new players and look how most of them turned out. Just because people aren't vets doesn't mean they can't become one. (Maybe even Badger will one day. /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" /> )

Pook wrote:

Lyko wrote:I think the stack is caused by imbalanced comms most of the time

And people won't command because of the stack.

On stacked teams there are incompetent players, on equal teams there are incompetent players, and on losing teams there are incompetent players.

When I command and I have more "good" players than the other team (stack), I still get frustrated with the incompetent people on my team. That frustration (caused by incompetence) makes me command less. The incompetence is MORE noticable on noob-stacked teams, but even on vet-stacked teams that incompetence is STILL THERE. That incompetence, which CANNOT be escaped, is the reason people don't command more.

There is no way to fix this INDIVIDUAL incompetence. It is the reason for unequal commanders, stacks, and everything. So if it can't be fixed, then something trying to fix it will have one of two effects: No Change or Make It Worse. I HOPE it will be "no change," but I FEAR it will make things worse by forcing people to leave.

See what I'm getting at everyone? You can only do more harm than good when trying to fix something that is un-fixable.

p.s. Mad, I was refering to especially incompetent people with my "sucky people will always be sucky," such as "Yanlin will always be Yanlin, only older." It's more a reference to dependablity than acutal skill.

MadAcc repeats what I say and everyone says it's a good point. Hmph! /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

...I play on the losing team, a.k.a., the unstacked team way more than I play on the winning team [Edit: at least it feels that way, I have no idea what my stats are]. And I can say it's the rare game that is lost because of individual player incompetence. That's total BS. And frankly, it's also rare to have such a noob/voob commander that that is the reason a game is lost. In the vast majority of games, it's a decent com against another decent com who draws the stack. It's really maddening to hear all the excuses made for stacking. Pure BS. At least Lykorgos has the ball to admit that he stacks most of the time and he does it simply because it's more fun.

That is the only valid reason why people stack. And I can't say I blame them. It's not nearly as much fun losing games, dealing with a team of newer, less skilled pilots, trying to compete with increasingly less competitive tech as it is playing on a team that has all the toys imaginable, whores it up and gets to enjoy their status on the end-of-game leader board. But please, don't try all the other crappy excuses for stacking. They have no validity.

I anti-stack not because it's fun, but because I genuinely believe it's the right thing to do in general and the right thing for the game itself. I stack because I get worn down with losing and I just want a little bit of fun. I'm 100% willing to trade the whorefest games for the ability to log on anytime and get a game that gives me a 50/50 chance of winning and a game that'll be fun as well.

Freeza wrote:QUOTE (Freeza @ Jul 25 2006, 03:01 PM) That incompetence, which CANNOT be escaped, is the reason people don't command more.

Actually, I wasn't offering an opinion - I was telling you the overwhelming #1 reason reported to me when I polled the commanders of the community. Of all those that cared to respond, the answer was "the stack".

So now, each team will have an equal amount of incompetence. If you can't handle playing with people that are learning, will make mistakes, or in general don't understand the game in the depth that you do then you probably shouldn't command anyway. This isn't war, it's not even a competetive sport. It's a game full of people of a range of talents, abilities, and experience. All those people deserve to play, and not in a horribly mismatched game so that the elite can perfectly execute masterful planning and tactics to beat up on a bunch of newbies. Those "elite" that cannot handle playing in anything but that one-sided mismatch are the ones that make posts about "incompetence", they're the ones that yell and scream and bitch at new commanders when they don't execute the perfect tactic in the perfect manner, and they're the ones that will leave when the game is a contest between two teams instead of a contest to see how horribly the elite can pummel the weak.

Just as an FYI, the #2 reason people don't command is because of all the @#(! they take when they mess up. If the self-titled Elite which I'm referencing above decide to leave - that's two problems solved.