Nor Warpcore, which is funny since Apoch made both this AND that! /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />
(See why I didn't want this forum to be too high level?)
I chose DN simply because I like it and it's played the most. In regards to Lyko's comments, 4.5 would be a good starting point but I'd go with 4.6 BIOS because 4.5 BIOS was just broken to the max.
First Official Post
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CronoDroid
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Last edited by CronoDroid on Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BlackViper
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Two Cents:
I can see the majority want DN, which is cool. (I am the lone A+ vote) But as pointed out above, balancing multiple factions is very very difficult. I would love to see a community core with limited factions to start and slowly work old/new factions into it.
And Pleaaaaaaaaseeeeeee keep the novelty crap out. Other cores can do that. Let's keep this mainstream.
I can see the majority want DN, which is cool. (I am the lone A+ vote) But as pointed out above, balancing multiple factions is very very difficult. I would love to see a community core with limited factions to start and slowly work old/new factions into it.
And Pleaaaaaaaaseeeeeee keep the novelty crap out. Other cores can do that. Let's keep this mainstream.
Last edited by BlackViper on Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Always in the Shadows...
I'm cool with whatever core as a base. If Noir is cool with DN being used as a jump off point, then that is probably the best option. He had some really great ideas which I enjoy (but honestly don't need), but most people can't do without after having been accustomed to them. Especially since it's really the only core that is played on the main game.
There are a couple of issues I discussed with Noir on some balance issues that I thought were a little too drastic, but I appreciate his stance that he was trying to mix things up and create more diversity with his core. It definitely change the game. For better or worse can be argued in circles till Judgement Day.
One thing I would like to see in Community Core is having a core group of "Main factions" where the balance differences are less extreme. By balance differences I mean ship attributes like speed, acceleration, agility, hull hitpoints, etc. Not to be confused with special features of factions (rix rip scouts, HOD, etc).
I would like to see factions starting off with slight deviations in balance, similar sized models and hit surfaces, and much tighter gun mounts. When you can get those things on a level playing field it makes the game easier and more enjoyable for the most important thing in this community, new players. By vastly differentiating the general balance, hit surface, and add in a factions special features, it's no wonder we only have a 5 to 10 percent retention rate in players who just don't plain understand and are being yelled at and made fun of because they don't learn them fast enough.
Once the overall stats of factions and their ships are within tolerable limits then we can slowly introduce special features back into the mix. Be careful to balance a factions perks with drawbacks. The more drastic the perk, the more drastic the drawback. In my opinion the biggest weakness of most cores (including IC from the original core) was that certain factions had these perks that are very effective in certain situations and against certain factions, while their drawbacks were too few and too slight to really have a "balancing effect" against certain other factions.
For example IC non galvable bases. That is a huge huge gameplay changer that really does not have an appreciable drawback. Things like that really can't be balanced and should honestly have a second look taken at them. Maybe introduce a new global feature for all factions to upgrade their light bases to medium or heavy outposts so that other factions with greater economies can make themselves as strong as IC where the factions weakness is supposedly their weak economy (which I don't agree with - e.g. - ripping miners that can offload at techbases).
I think one feature that can be a big hit is to take "special features" of certain factions and make them upgradeable for other factions if they have the cash. I used Iron Coalition's non-galvable bases. Most people will argue till they are purple in the face that taking them away is destroying Allegiance. I have nostalgic feelings like that also, but I don't want the integrity of the game reduced for personal feelings. Make it an option for other factions to also have them through upgrades. Giga starts with enh miners, but all other factions can upgrade to it. Or, you could make it so that other factions research a special "Anti-IC package" that empowers their Galvs with the ability to hurt their ops?
Hey, as a special thought, in early beta All ships and weapons could hurt any base. Maybe try bringing that back? /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
There are a couple of issues I discussed with Noir on some balance issues that I thought were a little too drastic, but I appreciate his stance that he was trying to mix things up and create more diversity with his core. It definitely change the game. For better or worse can be argued in circles till Judgement Day.
One thing I would like to see in Community Core is having a core group of "Main factions" where the balance differences are less extreme. By balance differences I mean ship attributes like speed, acceleration, agility, hull hitpoints, etc. Not to be confused with special features of factions (rix rip scouts, HOD, etc).
I would like to see factions starting off with slight deviations in balance, similar sized models and hit surfaces, and much tighter gun mounts. When you can get those things on a level playing field it makes the game easier and more enjoyable for the most important thing in this community, new players. By vastly differentiating the general balance, hit surface, and add in a factions special features, it's no wonder we only have a 5 to 10 percent retention rate in players who just don't plain understand and are being yelled at and made fun of because they don't learn them fast enough.
Once the overall stats of factions and their ships are within tolerable limits then we can slowly introduce special features back into the mix. Be careful to balance a factions perks with drawbacks. The more drastic the perk, the more drastic the drawback. In my opinion the biggest weakness of most cores (including IC from the original core) was that certain factions had these perks that are very effective in certain situations and against certain factions, while their drawbacks were too few and too slight to really have a "balancing effect" against certain other factions.
For example IC non galvable bases. That is a huge huge gameplay changer that really does not have an appreciable drawback. Things like that really can't be balanced and should honestly have a second look taken at them. Maybe introduce a new global feature for all factions to upgrade their light bases to medium or heavy outposts so that other factions with greater economies can make themselves as strong as IC where the factions weakness is supposedly their weak economy (which I don't agree with - e.g. - ripping miners that can offload at techbases).
I think one feature that can be a big hit is to take "special features" of certain factions and make them upgradeable for other factions if they have the cash. I used Iron Coalition's non-galvable bases. Most people will argue till they are purple in the face that taking them away is destroying Allegiance. I have nostalgic feelings like that also, but I don't want the integrity of the game reduced for personal feelings. Make it an option for other factions to also have them through upgrades. Giga starts with enh miners, but all other factions can upgrade to it. Or, you could make it so that other factions research a special "Anti-IC package" that empowers their Galvs with the ability to hurt their ops?
Hey, as a special thought, in early beta All ships and weapons could hurt any base. Maybe try bringing that back? /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
Bones heal. Chicks dig scars. Pain is Temporary. Allegiance is forever.
I think we shouldn't go too far afield with the community core. The point here is to make the main core something that almost everybody likes and that it constantly being maintained and updated, not to try to Fix Alleg in an EOR-type fashion. I might like your ideas, Pico, but I think they're the sort of thing that you should go off and make your own core for.
Yeah, I know that those radical ideas are kind of a crap shoot.
The main point was that we tone down the huge differences between the factions with regards to how overpowered some can seem while others seem almost pointless. Make tech expensive again. Slow the game down.
Make the differences between the factions clear and relevant to the theme of the faction. Don't make it so that newbs (or vets that don't play often between radical core changes) can't easily or quickly learn and get used to faction traits.
Advanced ints and heavy fighters are a departure and I mentioned as much, though I think not so much as a Mustang or VAnguard. In either case I was advocating bringing all ships and tech to a lowest common denominator of performance and starting from there. Don't make drastic differences between first to second level techs. And then again from second to third level techs.
Sorry if I was confusing and long winded in my previous post. I tend to spout off at the mouth about stuff that i've though a lot about in the past.
The main point was that we tone down the huge differences between the factions with regards to how overpowered some can seem while others seem almost pointless. Make tech expensive again. Slow the game down.
Make the differences between the factions clear and relevant to the theme of the faction. Don't make it so that newbs (or vets that don't play often between radical core changes) can't easily or quickly learn and get used to faction traits.
Advanced ints and heavy fighters are a departure and I mentioned as much, though I think not so much as a Mustang or VAnguard. In either case I was advocating bringing all ships and tech to a lowest common denominator of performance and starting from there. Don't make drastic differences between first to second level techs. And then again from second to third level techs.
Sorry if I was confusing and long winded in my previous post. I tend to spout off at the mouth about stuff that i've though a lot about in the past.
Bones heal. Chicks dig scars. Pain is Temporary. Allegiance is forever.
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aarmstrong
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First off I’m sorry I didn’t post in this thread yesterday. I was feeling like *#$% and hit the sack early. That said, I brought up the idea of a core poll on IRC and I appreciate Apoc posting this in my absence.
Here’s my idea: I’ll wait until this weekend to get a final tally, and then I’ll PM the top two core devs requesting their permission. All we need at this point is a basis and we can get rolling. Personally it really doesn’t matter as we can take the core in any direction that the community chooses.
I laughed at the EoR choice in the poll.
Here’s my idea: I’ll wait until this weekend to get a final tally, and then I’ll PM the top two core devs requesting their permission. All we need at this point is a basis and we can get rolling. Personally it really doesn’t matter as we can take the core in any direction that the community chooses.
I laughed at the EoR choice in the poll.
Doing easily what others find difficult is talent; doing what is impossible for talent is genius. -Henri-Frederic Amiel