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Seymor wrote:QUOTE (Seymor @ Aug 17 2007, 05:12 PM) I can't believe I'm saying this but Blade of God is correct. EMP cannon is weaker than equivalent Minigun damage against Belter caps. Against any Shield faction (Nix, Giga, TF, Maybe Bios) EMP cannon can be slightly stronger.

You're totaly wrong... /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />

This is the formula:
Damage/sec = (1 sec / Shoot interval) * damage per shoot * DM modifier

PS:
This will ignore area damage of EMP Canon!

EMP Can 1:
(1 / 0.25) * 9 * 1 = 36 damage/sec (+ area damage)

EMP Can 2:
(1 / 0.25) * 11.25 * 1 = 45 damage/sec (+ area damage)

Mini 2:
(1 / 0.078) * 5 * 0.5 = 32. damage/sec

Mini 3:
(1 / 0.082) * 6.25 * 0.5 = 38.11 damage/sec

apochboi wrote:QUOTE (apochboi @ Aug 17 2007, 08:15 AM) Only heavy ints can mount Mini dis.

Wow, good to know. It would have been really embarrassing if I tried that in game. /doh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doh:" border="0" alt="doh.gif" />

At any rate, I think we can all agree that the best choice of action is to use 1 emp until the shields are down, and then switch it out for an minigun. Just take one fewer fuel canisters (you don't need 3 canisters if you're defending vs a capship).

OR you can go sup

OR you can go tac and use swarms of killers.

Clay_Pigeon wrote:QUOTE (Clay_Pigeon @ Aug 18 2007, 02:08 AM) At any rate, I think we can all agree that the best choice of action is to use 1 emp until the shields are down, and then switch it out for an emp. Just take one fewer fuel canisters (you don't need 3 canisters if you're defending vs a capship).

What the hell would be the point of that Mr Pigeon? Made of Clay.

gah! typo!

Still, one would think you could use some powers of deduction to self-correct /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

This is gonna come as a shock, but I've run my own independent numbers, and while my TTK differers from TEK, Seymor is right. In pretty much all situations, you're better off with all mini guns if you're massing a defense vs cap ships. While it is true that EMP1 will do 72dps vs shields, compared to Mini1's 25dps (or even Mini2's 32dps). The ratio of shield to hull on a frigate is such that even switching the guns out once the shields are down doesn't provide you any real advantage.

For example, 15 mini1 on the frigate will kill it faster than 14 mini1s and one emp1.
And in the most common configuration of mini3 hvy ints and emp1, you're definitely better of with all minis.

My only conclusion is that EMP cannons use on DN is to attempt to drop the shields on bases for tts.

Blows my mind... way to buck the trend Seymor.

And now do the numbers on 2 ints launching, shooting for 4 secs each and then dying to the uber-skycaps... and then the rest of defenders show up.

The situation in this setup is wildly different depending on what those first 2 defenders were sporting.

Hi, Emps are neccessary becasue you want to kill the caps shields instead of 15 newbies charging one at a time never getting shields below 75% Belt's cap or no.

No having anyone equipped with Emp(or the equiv in shield killing tech ab/etc) should be a bannable offense

Numbers, predicted outcomes, and theoretical situations have NO BASIS in the real thing happening right then, right there.

I've seen games where 15 ints rush a frig all with mini. Guess what? The ints died.

I've seen games where 9 ints rushed a frig, a couple of them packed emp in a slot or two. Guess what? The frig died.

Useless speculation does not factor in player skill.

Experience is also not second to numbers.

You can attempt to plan for X Y and Z, but what happens when X Y and Z don't happen? What happens when half of your ints have to reload and the SHIELDS ARE NOT DOWN? What happens if your ints all boost towards the frig and eat prox? What if you don't have your team show up to d? I'm sure you'd want one person with all EMP so that the shields atleast drop.

Allegiance isn't meant to be played by numbers, there are too many variables to account for.

Drizzo wrote:QUOTE (Drizzo @ Aug 17 2007, 02:20 PM) What happens when half of your ints have to reload and the SHIELDS ARE NOT DOWN?

That one I can answer. The same thing that happens when your ints have to reload and the shields are down. Unlike base shields, ship shields recharge independently of hull damage.

The two answers above is why everyone should enroll in @ACS. It makes you a $#@!ing genius

p.s. I'm pretty sure they were smart already but I'll just steal credit for @ACS