New(b) lobby.

Post by **Raveen** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:37 pm

They're coming Weedy. I wanted to change the red/green parts of the doors to look more like the neon bands in SW but the models are textured in a weird way so I may have to knock that idea on it's head /doh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":doh:" border="0" alt="doh.gif" />

Your_Persona · Post by **Your_Persona** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:58 pm

Flower wrote:QUOTE (Flower @ Jul 23 2006, 08:28 AM) Well mayhap I got you all wrong and you only wanted to seperate players of different skill levels.
In this case ignore my above points.

I want to try something to help noobs stick around.

As it is our player base has been very constant. Our turn around is almost even, with a very small player base. I want something that will let everyone play the game.

As I see it having another lobby could not harm the influx of noobs, as our retention is SO low, even if a noob lobby was a total flop we wouldn't see the effect on the main lobby except for the lack of 0's.

Also it would not be requisite that they leave the noob lobby after they are able, I would let the stay as long as they want. Who knows, the noob lobby could turn out to be huge, with a very high player retention. Then the people that wanted to join the wankers would be able too.

With the ranks implemented they would be able to have vets in their own class. It wouldn't matter if a vet from their lobby was as good as a vet from our lobby. Or even if the play the game the same as we do. It a game, its for fun. They could reinvent any strategys, they could command without being cursed out.

It would be a great thing for everyone.

Dogbones · Post by **Dogbones** » Sun Jul 23, 2006 10:29 pm

pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Jul 23 2006, 06:03 AM) All we need is, that the server option "skill" work once again...

This will be in the next release. The next release adds ranks and with that the skill box will work again /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Hmm, I am not against the idea of a newb lobby, it would have to run on a publically addressable machine and I am not sure if yet another machine can run servers that point to different lobbies. Why does this matter? It does because this means we likely need a dedicated server for the newb server. It would not need to be a powerful machine but it would need to be on a high speed (low lag) link lest the new players get frustrated with a laggy server, even if they have it all to their own.

Since the lobby does not really buy you anything save a listing of servers. I'd say just use the skill levels to separate the players and be done with it.

Flower · Post by **Flower** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:13 am

Dogbones wrote:QUOTE (Dogbones @ Jul 24 2006, 12:29 AM) Since the lobby does not really buy you anything save a listing of servers. I'd say just use the skill levels to separate the players and be done with it.

I agree wholeheartedly that such a 'filter' function would likely be sufficient, if the filter would allow enough flexibility that is.
As far as I know, one can only choose
- 'novices only'
- 'advanced only'
- 'no advanced'
- 'no novices'
- 'any'
As the gap between ('advanced'=Vet Players) and ('novice'=tagged players) is very big I do somehow miss an 'intermediate only' function.
But instead of implementing it, two Variables that would allow the gameowner to set the lower and upper rank marigins where one is allowed to join would be far more flexible than these pre-fashioned default skill settings.

P.S.: This would take care of the 'skill' problem, but not the 'attitude' clash that yp hinted at. The dreaded ROC state that friendly insults are ok. But most newbies (as you all know) are insulted anyways and as one does not yet know if this newbie is ok with 'insults' it falls into the greyzone of 'not right' but 'not wrong' either.

badpazzword · Post by **badpazzword** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:21 am

While I have been a 0 I played two games in the newb server and two in the regular server. I compared and contrasted the experiences, and had on doubt where to stick around.

A newb lobby? I'm against. See, when you join it and you are a 0 you see only people with 0 to 7. So it's natural for you to ask the 7s. When you progressively rank up the numbers and finally become a 7, you become the guru of the whole place, every single 0 asking questions and you knowing the answer to most of them. Imagine how the 7's ego would boost when he receives the "Congratulations, you're a Voob!". Meanwhile, inside the newb community, the 7 become more and more of an elite and get more and more arrogant. Finally, the situation in today's lobby risks to be echoed in the newbie's lobby, and people with attitude are bullied twice, once when a 0 and once when an 8 (newbie between vets).

An adults server? I'm against it. Are there enough under-18s to get it to work?

Do we want more newbies then? Just put a short, image-filled description in the front page. And, what about putting a forum for public view?

juckto · Post by **juckto** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 8:29 am

Hell, make the TotD a 'click to continue' message, similar to how we receive messages via ASGS, and don't allow players the option to turn it off until they lose their #.

Arson_Fire · Post by **Arson_Fire** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:11 am

Ya know what's a great trick to get people to stick at a game? Unlockables.

Just make it so that as a newbie gains points/rank/whatever, they get the ability to do more and more stuff. Like make it so they start off only being able to use a scout or fig but after they gain a number or 2 they can use ints, and bombers and stuff. Although that might make the game a bit different if some members of your team cant use certain ships...

Maybe a less gameplay affecting alternative is to have cool unlockable skins for your ships.

I don't know, I'm just tossing out ideas. I'm sure someone can come up with something.

Flower · Post by **Flower** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:21 am

Arson_Fire wrote:QUOTE (Arson_Fire @ Jul 24 2006, 01:11 PM) Ya know what's a great trick to get people to stick at a game? Unlockables.

Just make it so that as a newbie gains points/rank/whatever, they get the ability to do more and more stuff. Like make it so they start off only being able to use a scout or fig but after they gain a number or 2 they can use ints, and bombers and stuff. Although that might make the game a bit different if some members of your team cant use certain ships...

Maybe a less gameplay affecting alternative is to have cool unlockable skins for your ships.

I don't know, I'm just tossing out ideas. I'm sure someone can come up with something.

Well this idea may have some merit :-) It would kind of force newbies to have enough time to appreciate 'the scout'. I would not allow them to use fighters in the beginning though. Every one who has no knowledge of Allegiance does instinctively pick 'a fighter' when heading out of base. It just sounds like you stand a better chance of survival in one of those.

Typhoone · Post by **Typhoone** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:43 pm

Is our goal here to purely gain more players? Or is it to expand our existing player base and eventually have maybe TWO prime-time servers active at any one time. The strategies to get to either goal seem different. This seperate new players server ("second lobby") seems to have potential to create segregation like a lot of people are pointing out. Becoming a 'vet' on the 'second lobby'... you've got your respect, why migrate to the lobby full of close-minded/rep-crazy/squad-happy vets? And I think that's what we DON'T want. That would SHRINK our community. With that option, you've limited primetime DN to the 150 or so squaded American Timezone pilots, and maybe 50 voobs, of which no more than a combined total of 80 is on every night anyways.

Then for the #'s, they've got a smaller population... what benefit of pickup games will they see when there are at best 10-on-10 games... of which you're sure that at least 40% is an asshat that is not seriously interested in the game and won't stick with it past (4). I wouldn't enjoy that experience if I was a new player.

I still think the solution is expanding our player base to a certain threshold where PU games are not so intimidating for any new players. What do you think is a better experience? One server with 16 pilots per team, 25 people in NOAT and everyone on TS smack-talking whatever is being typed in chat... or maybe two/three servers, 8-10 pilots per team, maybe 2 in NOAT, with comms of varied skill levels... IMO that is what I'd like to see. Maybe you like the current 60-pilot server PU games, I still do, but I think our community to grow we need to expand off of one server; and NOT do it just by changing the 'skill' settings.

Placing (#)'s with @ players on the same team is the quickest way to bring new players to skill and force @ players to respect everyone else in the community. I think the (#) limited Novice Server is the FARTHEST we should go with skill segregation. If you want to play a vet-only 'skilled' game: join a squad play a SG. Best;

Ty.

Vlymoxyd · Post by **Vlymoxyd** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:37 pm

I don't think a newbie lobby would be a good idea. I think that a lack of player on the newbie lobby might hurt retention more than what currently happens on vet servers.

I think that newbie games are good so that new players can get an idea of how the game works before playing against vets. However imo, if a newbie spent 1 year on the newbie server and then tried the vet server, it would be awfull. He would probably thinks he's good, but he would probably be somewhat useless.
Allegiance is a game that is learned by playing against good players.

The only thing a newbie lobby might do is reducing the tentation newbies might have to join the vet server.

I think that ASGS should automatically send a msg to newbies whenever they log on. That message should tell them about the newbie servers, the academy and the cadets.

Also, about the "tip of the day", I got an idea. With a new version of ASGS, there could be an option to get a message showing "tips"(On by default). Whenever a newbie log on, he could see a different one.
In asgs, there could also be a newbie menu that would link to different websites(Academy, alleg.net, etc).
We could also make a list of the top 10 things newbies should know.