Tasking Tool

Catch-all for all development not having a specific forum.
Cortex
Posts: 2578
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Post by Cortex »

I'm totally with Isgrim and Flower on this.

I've been considering to work on something like this for a couple of months now. Of course there is the question of whether it's actually useful and the problem of it maybe giving an unfair advantage.

As I'm too lazy to type something new, I'll just show you what I have already. I pretty much considered this project dead anyway, because I thought I'm the only one interested in it, but...

Problem:Only the comm has the tools and the time to appropriately evaluate situations and how to deal with them.But he does not have the tools to relay this information. Text chat is too slow. TS doesn't offer simultaneous communication. In-game commands to a whole team/subgroup is ineffective, because nobody knows who else accepted the command. (Besides, many people unfortunately don't accept commands if they are already performing them, thereby not informing the comm that they are. That is something this project won't solve either, though.)Apart from looking at the map, the comm has no possibility to get a status on what his pilots are doing. (Again: asking is too slow.)Intended solution:A TSO-like program (overlaying in your DX-app) that allows the comm to define tasks (and optionally adding the number of pilots he wants to see doing this) using hotkeys. The pilots can (using hotkeys) change their current task. The comm (or maybe the pilots as well) sees the list of tasks and the list of pilots doing a task.Some examples:On game start, the comm creates a 'con d' task and can quickly see how many people are doing that. Preventing 'no scouts' and 'everybody scouting' situations.Somebody needs to fly to a certain sector to get some pods. Using a task prevents the 'five ships for pickups' situation that results in wasted time.A rather unimportant base will soon be under attack. Defend it or fall back? The task list will show if enough people are ready to defend it, or if defending it will just result in more pods, so falling back to the next tech base would be the better solution.Are there enough probers? The comm can't see whether a scout is out to hunt miners, to nan a bomber or to probe. And: a sector has to be probed quickly. Is nobody going to do it or are there three scouts heading for it already and therefore, again, wasting valuable team time.Two bbr/HTT runs at once? Need a balanced amount of nans on both? Add two tasks and you'll see it.In summary, it perfoms three tasks:
a) Give an overview what everybody is doing and in what numbers.
B) Give a possibility to avoid spending time on things somebody else is doing already.
c) A possibility to allow giving out tasks with max numbers (a bomb run with 20 nans is nice, but not if it would succeed with 10 nans as well while the other ten pilots could hunt miners, stop cons, defend bases/miners, etc.)

Some more random notes:No, TS is not better. If every order is commented on by all let's say 20 players on the team, TS is a mess.
TS is a great help in games with organised teamwork (be it a SG or just a very good pickup game), but it has two major problems that the chat does not have: simultaneous communication is almost impossible, and information is lost the second it was transmitted, there is no way to read up on stuff you missed when you were busy.I do think this would improve at least my performance even in SGs or as a comm a lot.I fail to see what this has to do with 'forcing' people to an order.I fail to see what this has to do with 'forcing' people to a wing.

-- Cort
Last edited by Cortex on Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
This is Sparta. Not spa. — Wurf
Image
bahdohday
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:00 am
Location: London, UK

Post by bahdohday »

I think this is a neat idea. When I first started playing I spent a lot of time sitting in base staring at the map trying to figure out where to go and what to do (often arriving too late to actually do it).

I would like to offer one small feature addition that perhaps if a (#) player assigns themself/is assigned to a task, that it could offer them some contextual information about how to perform the task. For example:

* Player is assigned to miner defence by commander
* Player wonders exactly what that means and presses hotkey
* Allegiance opens relevant section of help describing how to perform task
* Potentially also allegiance issues order Defend .Miner926
* Player presses insert and they're on their way towards the miner and reading the help as they go

If the commander is just creating tasks himself with random names then I guess you can't generate any contextual information about what the player should be doing. But you could imagine you might have some default ones on the list when the game starts like scout the map, miner defence etc.

Adam
Cortex
Posts: 2578
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Post by Cortex »

bahdohday wrote:QUOTE (bahdohday @ Jul 26 2006, 04:40 PM) If the commander is just creating tasks himself with random names then I guess you can't generate any contextual information about what the player should be doing. But you could imagine you might have some default ones on the list when the game starts like scout the map, miner defence etc.
Correct, but of course this would only work if implemented inside the Allegiance client and not as an external tool like TSO.


-- Cort
Image
This is Sparta. Not spa. — Wurf
Image
bahdohday
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2006 8:00 am
Location: London, UK

Post by bahdohday »

Yes, although I wonder about the value of an external tool, if not everyone is using it then it might not help very much to be able to balance half your team members between tasks. So I suspect it needs to be either built into the client or bundled with it to be terribly useful. I could be wrong though.

Adam
Cortex
Posts: 2578
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Post by Cortex »

bahdohday wrote:QUOTE (bahdohday @ Jul 26 2006, 06:08 PM) Yes, although I wonder about the value of an external tool, if not everyone is using it then it might not help very much to be able to balance half your team members between tasks. So I suspect it needs to be either built into the client or bundled with it to be terribly useful. I could be wrong though.
Well, my original idea was to use it for SGs, of course.

Developing it as an external tool would just be a whole lot easier. No C++, not having to build it on top of the (OMG OMG OMG) Alleg source... /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />


-- Cort
Image
This is Sparta. Not spa. — Wurf
Image
Flower
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:00 am
Location: K-Pax

Post by Flower »

Cortex wrote:QUOTE (Cortex @ Jul 26 2006, 06:45 PM) Well, my original idea was to use it for SGs, of course.

Developing it as an external tool would just be a whole lot easier. No C++, not having to build it on top of the (OMG OMG OMG) Alleg source... /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
-- Cort
Hmmm yes, I imagined that integrating it into the main client would be far more difficult.

Bahodo's post has a point though... such a tasking tool would certainly improve every game of Allegiance to a certain degree once the commanders have learnt how to use it.
Relatively speaking though, the Tool will most likely cause the largest improvements in games (and pilots) which lacked Organization hitherto. The items I think of at once are Newbies, junior Voobs and Pickup games.
Judging from the lack of Newbies and Voobs on Teamspeak I guess one could infer that the tool might not be used by those whom it would benefit most.
Thus I think it would be best if such a tool would be indeed coded directly into the Allegiance Program.

(Especially when looking at this thread one notices that it is primarily the experienced pilots that do speak against the advantages of such a tool, thus I would assume too that the 'gratefulness' for such a tool is antiproportional to the skill of the pilot ;-) *semijoking* but I guess you get what I mean.)
@RT: "We've never been whores, we are misunderstood RTists."
Cortex
Posts: 2578
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:00 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Post by Cortex »

Flower wrote:QUOTE (Flower @ Jul 26 2006, 07:05 PM) (Especially when looking at this thread one notices that it is primarily the experienced pilots that do speak against the advantages of such a tool, thus I would assume too that the 'gratefulness' for such a tool is antiproportional to the skill of the pilot ;-)
That's my impression, too. I think they are very wrong, though.
It's probably just that vets are used to what they always had and don't like to learn new stuff. How do you say, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks"? /mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />


-- Cort
Image
This is Sparta. Not spa. — Wurf
Image
Brutal
Posts: 33
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Sweden - GMT+1

Post by Brutal »

Ah, so the next generation of allegiance players will be better organized then?

The only problems I see with this is:
- Four programs has to be run when playing allegiance, or five counting asgs. TS, TSO, Alleg and the 'new prog'. Thats a bit awkward.
- Everyone on the team has to use it for it to funktion properly.
The same applies to TS. Probably the gains will be too - enhancing the gameplay for those who do use it.
Flower wrote:QUOTE (Flower @ Jul 26 2006, 07:05 PM) Thus I think it would be best if such a tool would be indeed coded directly into the Allegiance Program.
I second Flower on this. But I have no idea how much work it would take.
Last edited by Brutal on Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mdvalley
Posts: 324
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2004 8:00 am

Post by mdvalley »

I’m wondering, instead of adding a whole new text box or something to the screen, why not just use the red text that shows up below the chat? The commander could type “#red DEFEND THE GODDAMN TAC” and it would show up as big bright red text, which could stay on the screen until the com typed something else for it. It wouldn’t be that hard to code, imo.
Flower
Posts: 252
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:00 am
Location: K-Pax

Post by Flower »

mdvalley wrote:QUOTE (mdvalley @ Jul 27 2006, 04:21 AM) I’m wondering, instead of adding a whole new text box or something to the screen, why not just use the red text that shows up below the chat?
Because at least one player (me) would be quite irritated by the constant red text in the middle of my screen. :-)
@RT: "We've never been whores, we are misunderstood RTists."
Post Reply