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Maybe it should be the other way, basic ships get the lead indicator but advanced/heavy don't.

juckto wrote:QUOTE (juckto @ May 2 2009, 08:44 AM) Taking the CM off will improve the thrust-mass (power-weight) ratio of an int from 12.371 to a whopping 12.5. Woooooo.

I never said it was a huge increase, just that its something extra to help out. Its not like you'll be using those CMs anyways.

Edit: I had to do some testing to confirm it, but I'm certain now that the mass value of a CM in ICE (0.25) refers to individual CMs and not the entire pack loaded. Meaning that the basic interceptor in juckto's example - which carries 3 CMs per pack - actually has a CM mass of 0.75 when fully loaded, not 0.25. The final ratio is still 12.5, but its actually lower than 12.371 when they are loaded - its 12.121 (making a difference of 0.379 instead of 0.129.)

Still not a huge increase, but a bit more than the initial glance suggests.

id rather perk tf gun damage back to dn 4.5 levels or more and get rid of the lead indicators. They are unique with their 0 spread and plas gens and pe guns and no missles etc. having lead indicators is annoying to fight against because you have every voob on the other team aiming 10x better than your voobs and it makes attacking them vs even enh tech very hard. I dont have a problem with the int size because their other ships are terrible.
Also a little off topic but are their mods or anything to make seeing tf ships easier? I find in a furball i cant find them visually very well, and also when shooting at them their damn gun particles block out the ship model

I still haven't made any calculation or put some numbers together, I played some alleg in the morning and now I have to remove a layer of painting from a ceiling in my house... anyway I hope a big - semi big discussion comes out of this, and when lots of people have read it, I will make up a poll so everyone can chip in based on what was said here.

Now, on topic, I still think we should remove those lead indicators. I don't even think you need to perk the guns to be balanced if you remove them, but if you think it should, well I would rather do that and still take the leads off.

TF lead indicators seem like cheese, but most vets dont really pay attention to it, yeah its helpful, but its mostly there for the vooblets to be able to use the faction.

the reason you feel like your getting owned by TF is that vets DONT MISS, and with 100% accuracy im going to try and land every bullet on you.

if your removed the lead indicators the nooblets are going to suffer hard, you will make TF nearly unplayable for half the community

QUOTE that the mass value of a CM in ICE (0.25) refers to individual CMs and not the entire pack loaded.[/quote]
Indeed it would. Slip up on my part.

Could mix it up a bit ... could make bases relay lead indicator. This would mean that all ships have lead, but only on their home turf. Or maybe do it with cons and miners (should the former change make TF too hard to bomb -- change it to an ability to push cons and defend miners). It's radical and unique without being too unbalancing hopefully.

cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ May 2 2009, 11:27 PM) Could mix it up a bit ... could make bases relay lead indicator. This would mean that all ships have lead, but only on their home turf. Or maybe do it with cons and miners (should the former change make TF too hard to bomb -- change it to an ability to push cons and defend miners). It's radical and unique without being too unbalancing hopefully.

You go write the code to allow bases to relay lead indicators then. And we will consider it.

Ok so, I guess these are enough opinions to make a poll, hopefully more people will chip in with the poll so the CC admin can make up their mind about this topic

I think make TF Int's lose it, they really don't need it anyway when you are so close, TF figs make more use of it but it's harder for me to say, TF adv figs are powerful although other ints can take em out but they can beat most other factions figs.

Maybe trial it and see, TF Figs get more firepower so the lead might be overkill and TF Int's have thier razor thin profile and don't really need it.