silly faction idea

Catch-all for all development not having a specific forum.
schnobs
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Post by schnobs »

CronoDroid wrote:QUOTE (CronoDroid @ Jul 7 2006, 11:00 AM) Because this is purely a game,
Invent some sort of hokey [...] story
Amen, brother.

Not so sure about the Nix flight model. Apart from Noir maybe claiming copyright, I'm not too fond of it either -- the main reason why I hardly fly Rix/Nix are their flight models.
Regarding lack of sidethrust, as much as it'd be in theme, one should be open for the posibility that it will prove too much of an handicap. Remains to be seen, I guess.

Personally, I gave up on emulating airplane behavior altogether. Alleg isn't built to deal with it. I believe one can at best hint at the real capabilities and limitations: some faster, some slower, some more agile than others.
More generally, I believe this to be about bringing WWII craft into Alleg, not about bending Alleg around WWII craft. Above all, the ships/planes should work reasonably similar to what we all know already and fill the same roles. If in doubt, I'd rate Alleg gameplay higher than historical correctness.

As to Kinetic Bombs (for that WW2 feel): their logical and most fun target would be capships and utility craft. However, the former are scarce while the latter (with their scout-like agility) will be very hard to hit. Maybe even harder than Gunships and Bombers (while bombing a bomber doesn't feel right). This is the the issue that's still nagging me most. I think bombs will by necessity be anti-cap and anti-base (though I wouldn't mind if the occasional lucky hit would deal out tremendous damage vs. any other craft).

Fast-moving rockets and tracking torpedoes will work as we expect them, though.

With rockets, the easy way would be to give them the a (fixed) speed according to the main guns' muzzle velocity: if the bullets hit, the missile will. But how about having them start out slow and accelerate rapidly? so there'd be a sweet spot at, say, 400m where the rockets' path would coincide with the aiming reticule, while you'd need to manually compensate for being closer in or further away.

I think it's too early to talk about faction-wide modifiers; I'd rather leave them at 1.0 for now and build the abilities into the models themselves. I'd rather use the modifiers as convenient global nerfs/perks further down the road. More PW range/damage compared to other factions will be necessary; but I'd only do it by modifier if there were too many sideeffects with other factions picking up the ancient uber-cannons (though this can be disencouraged by giving the WW2 gear different muzzle velocities -- effectively requiring scavengers to pick up a full set).

For a first core to try it on, I think PookyCore will be the easiest to do, as you could take over the currently vacant Rix. Besides, there may be issues w.r.t. weapon handles and damage tables -- I think it can be done without any modifications there, but should it become necessary the task will be a lot easier on PC than on DN (that's already crammed enough as it is). However, I didn't ask Pook for permission yet.

Modelling should be comparatively easy (compared to all-new models, that is). There's no shortage of ready-made 3D models of WWII gear, at least some of them have to be in a format that can be converted to whatever Alleg needs. Don't know about the legal side of it, though.

Generally, I wouldn't be too shy about going public with a crude, half-finished design. Chances are that this will be funny for a week and then everybody goes back to DN. It doesn't need to be polished or perfectly balanced to be fun. Should people actually like it and demand more, the design may still be refined (and one could even attempt to squeeze it into DN).

Regarding Expansion: the Me-163 is the *perfect* Alleg interceptor. If you haven't read the Wikipedia article yet, do so. Also follow the link about the machine cannon (the "pneumatic hammer").

I believe all attempts to combine piston engines and Allegiance Expansion will be doomed; either you have to abandon any analogy to the actual gear, and/or it will become too silly to be fun anymore. It is pivotal for ints to be limited in range, but capable of reaching their destination in a timely manner; furthermore, running out of fuel should spell desaster. All of this is so much easier to explain with rocket or jet engines.

Fighters going (say) 140mps base speed and 180mps overdrive (I'd still prefer NOx injection -- it's such a convenient explanation for why it uses up 'fuel' when engaged) should go over well with the concept of propeller planes and work within Alleg. However, ints should be both much faster and slower, respectively, and I don't see how this could be done with the same propulsion system. That's why I came up with F104s for adv.ints -- they're not period (which is a pity), but at least they won't break the analogy (which would be much worse).

Another problem I see is that common base-killing ships, in Alleg, shouldn't be too fast and have a high sig (so as to allow the defenders some early warning); however, if you want to kill miners, your ship should be fast or stealthy and preferably both. There's plenty of WWII planes that historically filled both roles, but for the sake of Alleg it will be necessary to split it up.

About turrets; besides your common run-of-the-mill 20/30/37 millimeter machine[guns|cannons], there definitely have to be AA shells. Never mind if you call them 8.8cm or 5 1/4 inch... translated into Alleg, they could take up the position of skycaps (similar damage/time at a much slower rate, area effect). Now who can think of a vessel to carry these, filling the role of the Gunship?
Rakinite
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Post by Rakinite »

I'm sure that a plain .30/.50 calibur machinegun would work fine as main armament, although for ships that mounted 6 or 8 machineguns(like the Spitfire), you'd need a two bullet version. I don't think you'll really need a skycap analog though, the 37 milimeter would come close enough though, with 20 mms being like AC/Mini-AC. For gunships, the Me-110 is a fine German one... the Brits, I think they had something called the "Beaufighter" which had gunner spots, mounted radar, and was designed as a night fighter. For the Americans, you could probably use one of the non-heavy bombers, like the B-25 Mitchell or B-26 Marauder, although I would give it limited bombing capacity, and also give the bombers limited gunship capacity. For the Japanese, I would suggest the Ki-45 Toryu(aka the "Nick"). I do have "Aces of the Pacific", and the manual for it has some nice pictures and statistics of Japanese figs. And if you're going to use bombs in the suggested incarnation, it might be a good idea to implement a ground of some sort, mainly because most(/tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />) WW2 craft were designed for operation on Earth.

If you do this as a core, what are you going to turn alephs into, if anything?

P.S: The Star wars core is half done and probably needs refinery, and it's relatively popular. My theory is that for a core to be popular, you need to do something unique, because despite nagging balance issues, DN still is a nice way to play Allegiance, and most people try to avoid other cores. And I suggest finishing the mod so you have some persuading material when you ask for permission to release it.
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GoldDragon
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Post by GoldDragon »

perhaps, to resolve the shield issue, you could just use armor (Armour) instead of shield (of course it wouldnt be able to regenerate) but then you would be able to have the more resistant armor to cut through first, and then the actual hull itself before podding the pilot.
Kappa_Alpha_Theta
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Post by Kappa_Alpha_Theta »

But then it would of course not be podding. In WWII, it would be "parachuting" the target.
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RazgrizOlon
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Post by RazgrizOlon »

Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Jul 6 2006, 10:03 AM) Much as I'm loathed to say it I think this'd make a great idea for a new core rather than a faction in an existing core (which would be a little odd).

Each faction could be WW2 combatants so I'm thinking, UK, Germany, Japan, USA as the main facs.

To enhance the gameplay you could change the flight model by removing sidethrust and making boost a longer timed but less powerful acceleration, more like an engine overdrive than the rocket boost in regular alleg.

If you were really clever you could even have ground of sorts. All you need to do is make models like the current asteroids that are flat circles the same diameter as the sector and make sure that all alephs are above that plane.

It'd be a lot of work but it could be fun /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Hehe, you forgot to mention something. It wouldn't be called Not On A Team anymore, it would be Switzerland ^_^
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Zeroun2687
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Post by Zeroun2687 »

RazgrizOlon wrote:QUOTE (RazgrizOlon @ Jul 12 2006, 01:14 PM) Hehe, you forgot to mention something. It wouldn't be called Not On A Team anymore, it would be Switzerland ^_^
/laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" /> Good one.

I like the idea, and it would bring the whole idea of blitzkrieging the enemy base into reality. Think about it, no rushing but blitzing instead, and then you have actual kamikaze planes and everything /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> That would make for an interesting game /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
asheron2k
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Post by asheron2k »

After I have completed, or failed, creating the IS mod I may be able to use similar techniques to give you a "floor" and maybe some buildings...
Clay_Pigeon wrote:QUOTE(Clay_Pigeon @ May 13 2008, 08:24 PM) can i post a story about my cat flying an elf?
SpaceJunk
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Post by SpaceJunk »

If you go a bit further in time, you may want to do a NASA / ESA / Russian Agency faction.

Make probes look like the Sputnik, fighters like the Columbia. And bases like the MIR or the ISS.

With all the missile tech rocket based.
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madpeople
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Post by madpeople »

*sings* tail gunner, your a tailgunner [/sing]


yay for wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircr...of_World_War_II
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircr...f_the_WW2_USAAF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WW2_Luftwaffe_aircraft

also get me one of these

i see no shortage of things to use for models,
googeling will probabbly reveal free models that you can use freely /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />
Rakinite
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Post by Rakinite »

That's nice. But no Brewster Buffalos or Gloucster Gladiators, or I will have a fit.
Nans are happy people. They fly around, give out repairs, and overall have a lot of fun. Why are we killing them when we can learn from their example?
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On second thought, I loathe my old banner. I want a good one, does that mean I have to work for myself?
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