Allegiance's reorganization

Wasp · Post by **Wasp** » Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:25 pm

lexaal wrote:QUOTE (lexaal @ Aug 25 2016, 04:43 PM) I want to say that i currently reimplement allegiance. Instead of dx9/dx7 i will use node.js combined with assembler. This combo is popular for some reason.
CU in two weeks

September 8th...

We're counting on you!

KGJV · Post by **KGJV** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:06 pm

Wasp wrote:QUOTE (Wasp @ Aug 11 2016, 11:18 PM) You've made it clear that you're only willing to contribute on your terms and it appears that you're attempting to manipulate FAO to abide by your demands in exchange for service. I doubt that will happen, so I think it's obvious that you're out. Thanks anyway.

I'm not manipulating anyone. Like I said, I just want to be sure that if I do some work it will be *really* published and not just stashed in the code repo indefinitely.
Just look at the github topic. I did some work about migrating trac+cvs to github and it went to oblivion. It felt like I lost my time.

Wasp wrote:QUOTE (Wasp @ Aug 11 2016, 11:18 PM) I'm considering hiring a professional team to fix this. I'm no coder but, I do know this isn't rocket science.

It is rocket science ffs. Programming games is as complex as rocket science. At least a complex game like Allegiance. Why do people don't realize that ?

GL finding a 'pro' willing to dive into this code... I'm sincere here. If you can find someone then go for it. Really.

If I was paid for this, I wouldn't do it. I'd rather be paid to rewrite Alleg...

KGJV · Post by **KGJV** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:29 pm

lexaal wrote:QUOTE (lexaal @ Aug 25 2016, 10:43 PM) I want to say that i currently reimplement allegiance. Instead of dx9/dx7 i will use node.js combined with assembler. This combo is popular for some reason.

CU in two weeks

wait what ?! you're trolling or what ? node.js/asm have nothing to do with dx9/dx7... It's scary, borderline hilarious to read something like that.

node.js could be used to rewrite alleg server and the game logic but that's it and it's a (relatively) small & simple part of Alleg.
The hard to do and big part of rewriting Alleg is the gfx (& the ui) which node.js can't do...at all.

I also contemplated more than once rewriting Alleg using modern web techs like HTML5+WebGL+threejs (or a higher level engine) and some node.js server side. But the task is just enormous. Full pro teams like the one making https://www.ageofascent.com/ are sweating hard to finish similar stuff. But https://www.urbangalaxyonline.com/play proved it can be done.

also reread that topic too: http://www.freeallegiance.org/forums/index...showtopic=68151, interesting stuff in here.

KGJV · Post by **KGJV** » Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:36 pm

Sgt_BakerII wrote:QUOTE (Sgt_BakerII @ Aug 17 2016, 06:25 PM) The bottom line: The game concept is STILL 100% OK. The code, the system, the servers, the etc etc etc are so outdated/messy/broken/confused that they cannot be salvaged at reasonable cost.

Allegiance 2 is the only answer - and not some individual's coding-hobby dream. A properly funded, properly managed, properly planned and properly executed effort.

I couldn’t agree more.

Wasp · Post by **Wasp** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:12 am

Don't take what I say as offensive, I'm not trying to troll here...

You cannot donate anything here without the premise that you are throwing away whatever you donate. You're implying that your donation won't be extended unless you're given a guarantee that your donation will be adopted and made permanent. That just ain't right. Your donation has to first be wanted and functional before it will ever become accepted.

I know how pissed off a coder must be when he puts the enormous amount of time into a task that is then disregarded (trashed). That is where a dev department comes into play whereby the task is put forth and IS guaranteed to become reality when functional. In the case of the Dx9 initiative, that was an ambitious project that doesn't work and was pushed anyway. THAT CANNOT HAPPEN....regardless of how much time went into it.

This is NOT rocket science by a long shot. The coding is "sloppy" by any refined standards however, it is still "fixable" given we work within the limits of of what we have.

If you think you're going to start this from scratch or re-invent Allegiance, you are OUT OF YOUR MIND. You don't have the resources, backing (funding), knowledge or grasp of the depth of what those boys at MS had. You can create substitutes for this and that and create a zillion workarounds, but then whatever you created,.. wouldn't be Allegiance.

Let it go...

edit: typo

KGJV · Post by **KGJV** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:11 pm

You're really having a hard time understanding me...

I never said I'm going to start from scratch alone. I just replied to Sgt_BakerII about completely agreeing about "A properly funded, properly managed, properly planned and properly executed effort".

The 'donation' is about something asked: you're asking for a fix to the dx9 port (or a backport of dx7). I simply say that I might (not that I will) look at this and may be fix it BUT 1st I want some kind of assurance that if I fix it then it will be published (if the fix is good ofc).

Anyway you can't guarantee that because you're not in charge here. That's not from you that I want answers.

Terran · Post by **Terran** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:27 pm

KGJV wrote:QUOTE (KGJV @ Aug 27 2016, 09:11 AM) You're really having a hard time understanding me...

I never said I'm going to start from scratch alone. I just replied to Sgt_BakerII about completely agreeing about "A properly funded, properly managed, properly planned and properly executed effort".

The 'donation' is about something asked: you're asking for a fix to the dx9 port (or a backport of dx7). I simply say that I might (not that I will) look at this and may be fix it BUT 1st I want some kind of assurance that if I fix it then it will be published (if the fix is good ofc).

Anyway you can't guarantee that because you're not in charge here. That's not from you that I want answers.

Did you email pkk about this? He doesn't really care about these discussions.

Wasp · Post by **Wasp** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:29 pm

KGJV wrote:QUOTE (KGJV @ Aug 27 2016, 10:11 AM) ...I just replied to Sgt_BakerII about completely agreeing about "A properly funded, properly managed, properly planned and properly executed effort".

Do you see that happening in any of your wildest dreams?....cause it AIN'T HAPPENING...NEVER, EVER! So that pipe dream can be laid to rest.

KGJV wrote:QUOTE (KGJV @ Aug 27 2016, 10:11 AM) ...you're asking for a fix to the dx9 port (or a backport of dx7). I simply say that I might (not that I will) look at this and may be fix it BUT 1st I want some kind of assurance that if I fix it then it will be published (if the fix is good ofc).

What kind of assurance are you looking for? A handshake?, A written guarantee? The Keys?
Whether you look into it or not is completely up to you. If FAO is unwilling to meet your terms or provide you "assurance" and or you choose not to do anythinng..., then again, I say thanks anyway.

KGJV wrote:QUOTE (KGJV @ Aug 27 2016, 10:11 AM) Anyway you can't guarantee that because you're not in charge here. That's not from you that I want answers.

If I was "in charge" here, I wouldn't make any deals regarding the donations or contributions from others. That opens the door for manipulation. Your work migrating trac+cvs to github was completely your work. You started it. It didn't go to oblivion, it was in oblivion to start with. I still visit it on a regular basis. It's useful and necessary. You gave something to us and now it appears that you wanted something in return?

I don't mean to sound ungrateful. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of Allegiance over the years thanks to everyone who volunteered & contributed. The unfortunate reality is that being a volunteer means that you are giving your contribution unconditionally.

I'm not even sure if FAO is open for volunteer work anymore. I think they're letting it go too

KGJV · Post by **KGJV** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:46 pm

Wasp wrote:QUOTE (Wasp @ Aug 27 2016, 05:29 PM) What kind of assurance are you looking for? A handshake?, A written guarantee? The Keys?
Whether you look into it or not is completely up to you. If FAO is unwilling to meet your terms or provide you "assurance" and or you choose not to do anythinng..., then again, I say thanks anyway.

I've said already what I want. Have you stopped reading and you're just trolling at this point ?
The only assurance I want is the proof that the people still in charge and/or what is left of this community can actually publish changes. The change everyone want is the default keymap.
So if this change doesn't happen anytime soon then there is indeed no point wasting time fixing or doing anything else in this game.

Wasp wrote:QUOTE (Wasp @ Aug 27 2016, 05:29 PM) If I was "in charge" here, I wouldn't make any deals regarding the donations or contributions from others. That opens the door for manipulation. Your work migrating trac+cvs to github was completely your work. You started it. It didn't go to oblivion, it was in oblivion to start with. I still visit it on a regular basis. It's useful and necessary. You gave something to us and now it appears that you wanted something in return?

I don't mean to sound ungrateful. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of Allegiance over the years thanks to everyone who volunteered & contributed. The unfortunate reality is that being a volunteer means that you are giving your contribution unconditionally.

ffs you're dense. I don't $#@!ing want anything in return. You keep misunderstanding me and been paranoid about some secret agenda I might have.

I'm afraid that discussion is now going nowhere.

We basically agree on everything except the complexity of fixing the dx9 issue and yet you keep this attitude.

KGJV · Post by **KGJV** » Sat Aug 27, 2016 7:55 pm

Terran wrote:QUOTE (Terran @ Aug 27 2016, 04:27 PM) Did you email pkk about this? He doesn't really care about these discussions.

So you want me to do the fix and also 'deal' with the 'management' ? sigh.

That part doesn't require coding or technical skills, anyone here can do it. Including you or Wasp.

So no I won't email ppk about this.