As a current (and second time) owner of a VW, I have to say I'm disappointed to see VW in something like this. It's mind boggling that 1. VW would risk their reputation and also that it took as long as it did for them to be outed for it.
After VW's struggles with their electronics/electrical difficulties in somewhat recent years, this is just another black eye for a manufacturer that is attempting to gain market share as, IMO, a somewhat niche middle ground between the cheaper imports and luxury makers.
Fortunately, I'm not impacted by this, as my first was an '11 Tiguan gasser and now a '14 Touareg TDI (3.0 L). I can't say if this will steer me away from another VW when the time comes, but the fact that it even gives me pause is bad news for VW, as I have had nothing but good things to say about both of my vehicles. The only reason I upgraded so quick was for towing capacity and slightly better fuel economy, despite a larger/heavier vehicle.
The fallout from this is going to be at best interesting, at worst a major FUBAR for the brand.
Oh boy is VW in the @#(!
Well, VW can always ship the polluting cars to Europe.
Not sure about you Americans but here in my little country I am cautious buying, selling or repairing a car. I think they are on the same level of trust as a politician.
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1006/Auto/article/d...ese-markt.dhtml
Google Translated, but I think you might get the idea of the article
QUOTE Every year tens of thousands of Americans shipping used cars with dangerous deficiencies to Europe. Especially through Lithuania, these vehicles within the EU. In the Netherlands, driving hundreds of such approval barrels around.
Each year, about 150,000 vehicles from the United States to Europe. One-third of which the vehicle has one or more severe defects. Of the cars that are shipped to Lithuania, even with three quarters something seriously wrong. Part of it comes to the Netherlands. This is evident from data on the service history of these cars.
The data come from the company of American origin Carfax, which in addition to the maintenance history also keeps data include fire, police, inspectorates and scrapyards. According Carfax is 'the majority' of the damage cars that are shipped to Lithuania on the Western European market.
Mended
,, Many of these are luxury cars that are attractive, for example, the Dutch and German markets, '' Rick light Zielman Carfax increasing. ,, In the Netherlands, probably hundreds of cars driving around which was something fundamentally wrong with that. "" These cars are patched up and sold as if they are as good as new. Sellers conceal the accident record.
Buyers are sometimes not even aware that the car comes from America. Cars that get a license plate through the Lithuania-route in the Netherlands are no longer subjected to strict inspection. ,, It is European as agreed that if a car in Lithuania is approved, you must recognize that inspection in the Netherlands, '' says Thérèse de Vroomen of the RDW. ,, Then there is no strict control here anymore. ''
'Significant damage'
Car dealer Auto Track Site stressed that it is not just "big American fry. Martijn Bovée: ,, It also involves regular passenger cars, such as Opel, Ford and Mazda 'Cars like sound known as the BMW and Mercedes, also come under him back to Europe with substantial damage. ".
ANWB and trade associations BOVAG warn consumers for the purchase of second-hand imported cars. BOVAG spokesman Tom Huyskens: ,, If it seems too good to be true, then it is usually "" Cars have been driving around in America, often turn a pig in a poke.. ,, Even though the cars are patched, they can still have dangerous defects, '' said Zielman. ,, In a collision, the body may be deformed such that corporate recovery at all is impossible. "" Because it is common in the US to check the maintenance history, are vehicles that have had damage it almost worthless.
Google Translate voor bedrijven:Translator ToolkitWebsite Translator[/quote]
Not sure about you Americans but here in my little country I am cautious buying, selling or repairing a car. I think they are on the same level of trust as a politician.
http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1006/Auto/article/d...ese-markt.dhtml
Google Translated, but I think you might get the idea of the article
QUOTE Every year tens of thousands of Americans shipping used cars with dangerous deficiencies to Europe. Especially through Lithuania, these vehicles within the EU. In the Netherlands, driving hundreds of such approval barrels around.
Each year, about 150,000 vehicles from the United States to Europe. One-third of which the vehicle has one or more severe defects. Of the cars that are shipped to Lithuania, even with three quarters something seriously wrong. Part of it comes to the Netherlands. This is evident from data on the service history of these cars.
The data come from the company of American origin Carfax, which in addition to the maintenance history also keeps data include fire, police, inspectorates and scrapyards. According Carfax is 'the majority' of the damage cars that are shipped to Lithuania on the Western European market.
Mended
,, Many of these are luxury cars that are attractive, for example, the Dutch and German markets, '' Rick light Zielman Carfax increasing. ,, In the Netherlands, probably hundreds of cars driving around which was something fundamentally wrong with that. "" These cars are patched up and sold as if they are as good as new. Sellers conceal the accident record.
Buyers are sometimes not even aware that the car comes from America. Cars that get a license plate through the Lithuania-route in the Netherlands are no longer subjected to strict inspection. ,, It is European as agreed that if a car in Lithuania is approved, you must recognize that inspection in the Netherlands, '' says Thérèse de Vroomen of the RDW. ,, Then there is no strict control here anymore. ''
'Significant damage'
Car dealer Auto Track Site stressed that it is not just "big American fry. Martijn Bovée: ,, It also involves regular passenger cars, such as Opel, Ford and Mazda 'Cars like sound known as the BMW and Mercedes, also come under him back to Europe with substantial damage. ".
ANWB and trade associations BOVAG warn consumers for the purchase of second-hand imported cars. BOVAG spokesman Tom Huyskens: ,, If it seems too good to be true, then it is usually "" Cars have been driving around in America, often turn a pig in a poke.. ,, Even though the cars are patched, they can still have dangerous defects, '' said Zielman. ,, In a collision, the body may be deformed such that corporate recovery at all is impossible. "" Because it is common in the US to check the maintenance history, are vehicles that have had damage it almost worthless.
Google Translate voor bedrijven:Translator ToolkitWebsite Translator[/quote]
Thanks for your insight on this MrC, when I heard the news on the radio my first thought was what your take would be 
For me the question was whether this is routine in the industry and VW just happened to get caught or whether VW $#@!ed up big style. I think we know the answer now
For me the question was whether this is routine in the industry and VW just happened to get caught or whether VW $#@!ed up big style. I think we know the answer now
Spidey: Can't think of a reason I'd need to know anything
The VW 'cheatware' seems to be in (every?) recent VW Diesel car sold everywhere. It 'knows' when it's on the testbed when the wheels are turning but no one uses the steering wheel (if I understand the explanation correctly). It seems to activate an 'economic' mode, reducing the output.
It might be interesting to know if other brands do something similar.
Anyway, the big bosses crawl through the dust making excuses, and the German Gov't wants to investigate.
It might be interesting to know if other brands do something similar.
Anyway, the big bosses crawl through the dust making excuses, and the German Gov't wants to investigate.
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hockey1015
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:00 am
- Location: Tampa, FL
As it appears, and as I understand, it's ONLY the smaller diesel engines. MrC can (and will) correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's primarily the 2.0L diesels, maybe 1.8's as well, but I have no complete certainty that they utilize that size diesel.peet wrote:QUOTE (peet @ Sep 22 2015, 01:50 PM) The VW 'cheatware' seems to be in (every?) recent VW Diesel car sold everywhere. It 'knows' when it's on the testbed when the wheels are turning but no one uses the steering wheel (if I understand the explanation correctly). It seems to activate an 'economic' mode, reducing the output.
It might be interesting to know if other brands do something similar.
Anyway, the big bosses crawl through the dust making excuses, and the German Gov't wants to investigate.
My 3.0L has not been reported in any news articles as being a car model affected.
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hockey1015
- Posts: 938
- Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:00 am
- Location: Tampa, FL
Rest assured there will be no "asking"peet wrote:QUOTE (peet @ Sep 22 2015, 03:17 PM) It seems the EPA might ask VW for a recall.
VW has halted all sales, New and pre-owned, of the affected models. They will be told, in no uncertain terms, that they are on the hook to fix/replace/repair the software to comply with regulations. They'll be subject to class action lawsuits regarding false advertising of "clean diesel" technology, on top of what I expect will be record setting fines (I agree with MrC that it probably won't be the 18 Billion figure, but it will most likely be at least several Billion, maybe double digits).
In short, VW might as well bend over and expect no lube.
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Duckwarrior
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:00 am
- Location: la Grande-Bretagne
I'm so confused.
If we can't trust huge corporations to act ethically, who can we trust?!
Please, someone reassure me that it isn't VW's fault, but rather some bad apples that went rogue so we can all get back to supporting brands like they are sports teams.
If we can't trust huge corporations to act ethically, who can we trust?!
Please, someone reassure me that it isn't VW's fault, but rather some bad apples that went rogue so we can all get back to supporting brands like they are sports teams.
Last edited by Duckwarrior on Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable. John F. Kennedy.
Duckie gets to the heart of the story...Duckwarrior wrote:QUOTE (Duckwarrior @ Sep 22 2015, 06:46 PM) I'm so confused.
If we can't trust huge corporations to act ethically, who can we trust?!
FLAWLESS VICTORY!
Last edited by finisher2 on Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Duckwarrior
- Posts: 1967
- Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2003 7:00 am
- Location: la Grande-Bretagne
You know what's really worrying?
This is one of the corporations, and it will be the same (or similar) government agencies that failed to detect these Nimrods before now, manufacturing & regulating driverless vehicles. Consider how many driving infractions are penalised in a day. Now consider how long it took the government body in the biggest economy in the world to realise they were being taken for a ride. Now consider the fact that the government agencies in Europe & Australasia & South East Asia and everywhere else that these cars have been sold NEVER cottoned on to the fact that they were being mugged off.
We know that there will be bluff and bluster from both the guilty parties & from governments that steps have been taken to ensure this can never happen again (har-de-har-har) & the car makers will be whiter than white for 5 or 10 years. How about when the commercial reality of competition in the auto pilot controlled vehicle market sets in? The pressure will be on to come up with a system that can save a taxi company 5 litres of fuel a day or make a journey 5 minutes shorter. Who would bet against chicanery then? So when you are being overtaken with your kids in the back of the car by a driverless semi at 50 mph plus at some future date, just think on..
This is one of the corporations, and it will be the same (or similar) government agencies that failed to detect these Nimrods before now, manufacturing & regulating driverless vehicles. Consider how many driving infractions are penalised in a day. Now consider how long it took the government body in the biggest economy in the world to realise they were being taken for a ride. Now consider the fact that the government agencies in Europe & Australasia & South East Asia and everywhere else that these cars have been sold NEVER cottoned on to the fact that they were being mugged off.
We know that there will be bluff and bluster from both the guilty parties & from governments that steps have been taken to ensure this can never happen again (har-de-har-har) & the car makers will be whiter than white for 5 or 10 years. How about when the commercial reality of competition in the auto pilot controlled vehicle market sets in? The pressure will be on to come up with a system that can save a taxi company 5 litres of fuel a day or make a journey 5 minutes shorter. Who would bet against chicanery then? So when you are being overtaken with your kids in the back of the car by a driverless semi at 50 mph plus at some future date, just think on..
Last edited by Duckwarrior on Wed Sep 23, 2015 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable. John F. Kennedy.