Oh boy is VW in the @#(!

MrChaos · Post by **MrChaos** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 1:13 pm

In case you haven't read it yet VW willfully circumvented emission control on their 2.0L Diesel engines since 2009 (about 500,000 in all)

What makes this one special:

The software was designed to tell when the emission was being run
Outside test facilities noted the cal changing quite early and VW fought them
After things heated up VW voluntarily offered cal changes that did nothing
They continued this behavior right up to Friday

They are righteously $#@!ed on several levels. People COULD get jail time given the absolute guarantee they purposely did it, usually what stops one from going to jail here is proving intent.

They are facing fines as high as 18 billion dollars from the US and TBD from the individual states.

They are looking at a class action suits on both ends of this thing as the vehicles do not perform as advertised and will not once they meet emissions.

Finally it most likely means they arent meeting standards in other countries.

To be clear what makes this one special is they purposely did it, then covered it up with both words and deeds for many years. The Prius software cover up was after the fact, and the GM key thing was bad judgement, stupidly, with apparent ass covering at the end for example.

As someone who works in the industry even I am surprised at the blatant nature of it. I see billions in fines, billions in lawsuit pay outs, and the possibility of people actually being found guilty of criminal charges.

peet · Post by **peet** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 2:13 pm

I think almost any car company does that. Like totally unrealistic tests how much miles on a gallon. Even seen some ridiculous things like taping the car for ideal wind resistant, using over inflated tires, removing a mirror and head rests. Disabling parts of the engine for less emissions also seems a nice trick (shut down 1 cylinder iirc).

VW got caught with their pants down now they have to bleed (only in the US). VW might sack some old geezer at the top.

If the US is really consequent they might notice a shortage of cars soon.

MrChaos · Post by **MrChaos** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:35 pm

I think you are confusing MPG and emissions to very different things. Calibration geared to maximizing MPG is common sense and a sport played by all tbs. Calibration that defeats emissions with a software switch specifically designed to enable only when running the emissions qualification testing is not common.

I guarantee you I would turn in my employer for doing the later so would everyone who has discussed since Friday. They are missing NOX levels by up to 40 times... 40 times that isa big deal.

If they are missing EPA emissions, it is good bet they miss Europe's too. Heck probably many others as well.

This isn't some shadowy figure who did this but a cross functional group of people who had to know something was fishy.

Trust me Peet unless your and my Overlords give them a sweetheart deal this is going to get very very ugly

MrChaos · Post by **MrChaos** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 4:32 pm

www.arb.ca.gov/newsrel/in_use_compliance_letter.htm

CARB letter

Jalopnik has a nice write up

finisher2 · Post by **finisher2** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:55 pm

What I find interesting is that they would want to do this. It must signal some deperation on the part of the company to remain competitive. I thought VW had great cars and great engineers behind them. You would think they wouldn't need to screw around this badly to stay in the game, but why on earth would they do something so nefarious unless they felt they really had to.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. There better be criminal charges. Criminal fraud would seem an obvious one.

Post by **pkk** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 8:42 pm

I don't think Volkswagen is the only one.

Overall it's old news... Car industry is cheating since years:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-22...good-think.html

MrChaos · Post by **MrChaos** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:27 pm

Again this isn't fuel economy it is emissions and they cheated, lied, and cheated again. The DoJ started a criminal investigation. You are welcome to see this in any light you want of course but VW lost 20 percent of its value in one day. It is because the whole Diesel is green may fall apart and they bet the farm on it.

Why did they do it? I'm guessing of course and fwiw also was surprised like you.

The VW 2L doesn't have a Urea system just a particulate system. In order to add the urea, synthetic piss n a nutshell, is many thousands of dollars and not something you just throw in.

VW sells mostly Diesels in the US 25% and has almost no market presence here 2%. The current CEO staked his reputation on a 10% share by the end of the decade and has been pushing "Clean Diesel" as the way to do it. VW doesn't do well here for a variety of reasons imho and one of them is cost. So to gain market, using fuel mostly popular with trucks (VW had most of the passenger Diesel market) and already hardly a cost leader they bet the faerrm Urea wasnt going to be needed and lost the bet. So they lied and then never fixed it.

BTW the lack of a Urea system has been a WTF thing since the system wad introduced

Globemaster_III · Post by **Globemaster_III** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:25 am

from what i understand, Obama press EPA with the clean air act , EPA are after every company and IRS are after Coke company in a Billion dollars taxs.

Broodwich · Post by **Broodwich** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:28 am

MrChaos · Post by **MrChaos** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 5:39 am

As my main man Brood said

WWSD