I believe it is cashto that has been talking with Steam & Desura.
I believe the discussion is a few pages back in this thread, if you have time to read it.
Allegiance Rebuild
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MagisterXF94
- Posts: 1935
- Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:46 am
- Location: Trieste, Italy
I believe that the main issue with having Allegiance on Steam is that we (as in FAO), do not hold the copyright of the game.
Also the license MS gave us when the source code was released, explicitly prevents us to market Allegiance even as a free game (on platforms
such as Steam)
QUOTE Allegiance Source Code - Version 1.0
This Microsoft Research Shared Source license agreement ("MSR-SSLA") is a legal
agreement between you and Microsoft Corporation (“Microsoft” or “we”) for the software
or data identified above, which may include source code, and any associated materials,
text or speech files, associated media and "online" or electronic documentation (together,
the "Software").
By installing, copying, or otherwise using this Software, found at
http://research.microsoft.com/downloads, you agree to be bound by the terms of this
MSR-SSLA. If you do not agree, do not install copy or use the Software. The Software is
protected by copyright and other intellectual property laws and is licensed, not sold.
SCOPE OF RIGHTS:
You may use this Software for any non-commercial purpose, subject to the restrictions in
this License. Some purposes which can be non-commercial are teaching, academic
research, public demonstrations and personal experimentation. You may also distribute
this Software with books or other teaching materials, or publish the Software on
websites, that are intended to teach the use of the Software for academic or other non-
commercial purposes.
You may not use or distribute this Software or any derivative works in any form for
commercial purposes. Examples of commercial purposes would be running business
operations, licensing, leasing, or selling the Software, distributing the Software for use
with commercial products or any other activity which purpose is to procure a commercial
gain to you or others.
If the Software includes source code or data, you may modify such portions of the
Software and distribute the modified Software for non-commercial purposes, as provided
herein.
You may use any information in intangible form that you remember after accessing the
Software. However, this right does not grant you a license to any of Microsoft's
copyrights or patents for anything you might create using such information.
In return, we simply require that you agree:
1. That you will not remove any copyright or other notices from the Software.
2. That if any of the Software is in binary format, you will not attempt to modify such
portions of the Software, or to reverse engineer or decompile them, except and
only to the extent authorized by law.
3. That if you distribute the Software or any derivative works of the Software, you
will distribute them under a verbatim copy of this License, and you will not grant
rights to the Software or derivative works that are broader than those provided by
this License. For example, you may not distribute modifications of the Software
under terms that would permit commercial use, or under terms that purport to
require the Software or such derivative works to be sublicensed to others
4. That if you have modified the Software or created derivative works, and distribute
such modifications or derivative works, you will cause the modified files to carry
prominent notices so that recipients know that they are not receiving the original
Software. Such notices must state: (i) that you have changed the Software; and
(ii) the date of any changes.
5. That Microsoft is granted back, without any limitations and on a royalty free basis,
the rights to reproduce, install, use, modify, distribute and transfer your
modifications to the Software source code or data.
6. That any feedback about the Software provided by you to us is voluntarily given,
and Microsoft shall be free to use the feedback as it sees fit without obligation or
restriction of any kind, even if the feedback is designated by you as confidential.
7. THAT THE SOFTWARE COMES "AS IS", WITH NO WARRANTIES. THIS
MEANS NO EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY WARRANTY, INCLUDING
WITHOUT LIMITATION, WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS
FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ANY WARRANTY AGAINST
INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE SOFTWARE OR ANY
WARRANTY OF TITLE OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. THERE IS NO WARRANTY
THAT THIS SOFTWARE WILL FULFILL ANY OF YOUR PARTICULAR
PURPOSES OR NEEDS. ALSO, YOU MUST PASS THIS DISCLAIMER ON
WHENEVER YOU DISTRIBUTE THE SOFTWARE OR DERIVATIVE WORKS.
8. THAT NEITHER MICROSOFT NOR ANY CONTRIBUTOR TO THE SOFTWARE
WILL BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES RELATED TO THE SOFTWARE OR
THIS LICENSE, INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, SPECIAL,
CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT
THE LAW PERMITS, NO MATTER WHAT LEGAL THEORY IT IS BASED ON.
ALSO, YOU MUST PASS THIS LIMITATION OF LIABILITY ON WHENEVER
YOU DISTRIBUTE THE SOFTWARE OR DERIVATIVE WORKS.
9. That we have no duty of reasonable care or lack of negligence, and we are not
obligated to (and will not) provide technical support for the Software.
10. That if you breach this MSR-SSLA or if you sue anyone over patents that you
think may apply to the Software or anyone's use of the Software, your license to
the Software ends automatically and you shall destroy all of your copies of the
Software immediately. Section 5 of this MSR-SSLA shall survive any termination
of this license.
11. That the patent rights, if any, granted in this License only apply to the Software,
not to any derivative works you make.
12. That the Software is subject to U.S. export jurisdiction at the time it is licensed to
you, and it may be subject to additional export or import laws in other
places. You agree to comply with all such laws and regulations that may apply to
the Software after delivery of the software to you.
13. That if you are an agency of the U.S. Government, (i) Software provided
pursuant to a solicitation issued on or after December 1, 1995, is provided with
the commercial license rights set forth in this License, and (ii) Software provided
pursuant to a solicitation issued prior to December 1, 1995, is provided with
“Restricted Rights” as set forth in FAR, 48 C.F.R. 52.227-14 (June 1987) or
DFAR, 48 C.F.R. 252.227-7013 (Oct 1988), as applicable.
14. That your rights under this License end automatically if you breach it in any way.
15. That all rights not expressly granted to you in this License are reserved.
16. That this MSR-SSLA shall be construed and controlled by the laws of the State of
Washington, USA, without regard to conflicts of law. If any provision of this
MSR-SSLA shall be deemed unenforceable or contrary to law, the rest of this
MSR-SSLA shall remain in full effect and interpreted in an enforceable manner
that most nearly captures the intent of the original language.
Copyright © Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.[/quote]
Now if Microsoft, who still holds the copyright, were to ask steam to host Allegiance, then I do not see any legal problem.
But we as FAO cannot, since the license restricts from doing so.
Cashto has been in contact with MS ( trough a contact), in order to ask for a less restrictive license, but we have not heard from him in a while.
I hope I got everything right. Our main admin PKK can explain in further detail.
Also the license MS gave us when the source code was released, explicitly prevents us to market Allegiance even as a free game (on platforms
such as Steam)
QUOTE Allegiance Source Code - Version 1.0
This Microsoft Research Shared Source license agreement ("MSR-SSLA") is a legal
agreement between you and Microsoft Corporation (“Microsoft” or “we”) for the software
or data identified above, which may include source code, and any associated materials,
text or speech files, associated media and "online" or electronic documentation (together,
the "Software").
By installing, copying, or otherwise using this Software, found at
http://research.microsoft.com/downloads, you agree to be bound by the terms of this
MSR-SSLA. If you do not agree, do not install copy or use the Software. The Software is
protected by copyright and other intellectual property laws and is licensed, not sold.
SCOPE OF RIGHTS:
You may use this Software for any non-commercial purpose, subject to the restrictions in
this License. Some purposes which can be non-commercial are teaching, academic
research, public demonstrations and personal experimentation. You may also distribute
this Software with books or other teaching materials, or publish the Software on
websites, that are intended to teach the use of the Software for academic or other non-
commercial purposes.
You may not use or distribute this Software or any derivative works in any form for
commercial purposes. Examples of commercial purposes would be running business
operations, licensing, leasing, or selling the Software, distributing the Software for use
with commercial products or any other activity which purpose is to procure a commercial
gain to you or others.
If the Software includes source code or data, you may modify such portions of the
Software and distribute the modified Software for non-commercial purposes, as provided
herein.
You may use any information in intangible form that you remember after accessing the
Software. However, this right does not grant you a license to any of Microsoft's
copyrights or patents for anything you might create using such information.
In return, we simply require that you agree:
1. That you will not remove any copyright or other notices from the Software.
2. That if any of the Software is in binary format, you will not attempt to modify such
portions of the Software, or to reverse engineer or decompile them, except and
only to the extent authorized by law.
3. That if you distribute the Software or any derivative works of the Software, you
will distribute them under a verbatim copy of this License, and you will not grant
rights to the Software or derivative works that are broader than those provided by
this License. For example, you may not distribute modifications of the Software
under terms that would permit commercial use, or under terms that purport to
require the Software or such derivative works to be sublicensed to others
4. That if you have modified the Software or created derivative works, and distribute
such modifications or derivative works, you will cause the modified files to carry
prominent notices so that recipients know that they are not receiving the original
Software. Such notices must state: (i) that you have changed the Software; and
(ii) the date of any changes.
5. That Microsoft is granted back, without any limitations and on a royalty free basis,
the rights to reproduce, install, use, modify, distribute and transfer your
modifications to the Software source code or data.
6. That any feedback about the Software provided by you to us is voluntarily given,
and Microsoft shall be free to use the feedback as it sees fit without obligation or
restriction of any kind, even if the feedback is designated by you as confidential.
7. THAT THE SOFTWARE COMES "AS IS", WITH NO WARRANTIES. THIS
MEANS NO EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY WARRANTY, INCLUDING
WITHOUT LIMITATION, WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS
FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, ANY WARRANTY AGAINST
INTERFERENCE WITH YOUR ENJOYMENT OF THE SOFTWARE OR ANY
WARRANTY OF TITLE OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. THERE IS NO WARRANTY
THAT THIS SOFTWARE WILL FULFILL ANY OF YOUR PARTICULAR
PURPOSES OR NEEDS. ALSO, YOU MUST PASS THIS DISCLAIMER ON
WHENEVER YOU DISTRIBUTE THE SOFTWARE OR DERIVATIVE WORKS.
8. THAT NEITHER MICROSOFT NOR ANY CONTRIBUTOR TO THE SOFTWARE
WILL BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES RELATED TO THE SOFTWARE OR
THIS LICENSE, INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, SPECIAL,
CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL DAMAGES, TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT
THE LAW PERMITS, NO MATTER WHAT LEGAL THEORY IT IS BASED ON.
ALSO, YOU MUST PASS THIS LIMITATION OF LIABILITY ON WHENEVER
YOU DISTRIBUTE THE SOFTWARE OR DERIVATIVE WORKS.
9. That we have no duty of reasonable care or lack of negligence, and we are not
obligated to (and will not) provide technical support for the Software.
10. That if you breach this MSR-SSLA or if you sue anyone over patents that you
think may apply to the Software or anyone's use of the Software, your license to
the Software ends automatically and you shall destroy all of your copies of the
Software immediately. Section 5 of this MSR-SSLA shall survive any termination
of this license.
11. That the patent rights, if any, granted in this License only apply to the Software,
not to any derivative works you make.
12. That the Software is subject to U.S. export jurisdiction at the time it is licensed to
you, and it may be subject to additional export or import laws in other
places. You agree to comply with all such laws and regulations that may apply to
the Software after delivery of the software to you.
13. That if you are an agency of the U.S. Government, (i) Software provided
pursuant to a solicitation issued on or after December 1, 1995, is provided with
the commercial license rights set forth in this License, and (ii) Software provided
pursuant to a solicitation issued prior to December 1, 1995, is provided with
“Restricted Rights” as set forth in FAR, 48 C.F.R. 52.227-14 (June 1987) or
DFAR, 48 C.F.R. 252.227-7013 (Oct 1988), as applicable.
14. That your rights under this License end automatically if you breach it in any way.
15. That all rights not expressly granted to you in this License are reserved.
16. That this MSR-SSLA shall be construed and controlled by the laws of the State of
Washington, USA, without regard to conflicts of law. If any provision of this
MSR-SSLA shall be deemed unenforceable or contrary to law, the rest of this
MSR-SSLA shall remain in full effect and interpreted in an enforceable manner
that most nearly captures the intent of the original language.
Copyright © Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.[/quote]
Now if Microsoft, who still holds the copyright, were to ask steam to host Allegiance, then I do not see any legal problem.
But we as FAO cannot, since the license restricts from doing so.
Cashto has been in contact with MS ( trough a contact), in order to ask for a less restrictive license, but we have not heard from him in a while.
I hope I got everything right. Our main admin PKK can explain in further detail.
Last edited by MagisterXF94 on Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
QUOTE ^cashto@Elem (all): yeah, i imagine if you're rusty, you could build op short for no reason, build a naked ref, then go two techpaths even though your mining is by all objective standards $#@!ed[/quote]
The way I read this it can be hosted on Steam. And you can market it. You can't make money off of it and you can't change the copyright.Blacksun94 wrote:QUOTE (Blacksun94 @ Apr 18 2015, 06:20 PM) I believe that the main issue with having Allegiance on Steam is that we (as in FAO), do not hold the copyright of the game.
Also the license MS gave us when the source code was released, explicitly prevents us to market Allegiance even as a free game
Now if Microsoft, who still holds the copyright, were to ask steam to host Allegiance, then I do not see any legal problem.
But we as FAO cannot, since the license restricts from doing so.
Cashto has been in contact with MS ( trough a contact), in order to ask for a less restrictive license, but we have not heard from him in a while.
I hope I got everything right. Our main admin PKK can explain in further detail.
What am I missing?
I haven't read the license in a while but after doing so I agree with Solap.
The game would be free to download and play if posted on Steam.
Steam is free to join and I don't see how they would be looking or able to make money from hosting/distributing Allegiance as a free download.
Seems to me they could host this game with the license as is.
The game would be free to download and play if posted on Steam.
Steam is free to join and I don't see how they would be looking or able to make money from hosting/distributing Allegiance as a free download.
Seems to me they could host this game with the license as is.
-
MagisterXF94
- Posts: 1935
- Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:46 am
- Location: Trieste, Italy
FYI, RTFM:Papsmear wrote:QUOTE (Papsmear @ Apr 19 2015, 04:50 PM) I haven't read the license in a while but after doing so I agree with Solap.
The game would be free to download and play if posted on Steam.
Steam is free to join and I don't see how they would be looking or able to make money from hosting/distributing Allegiance as a free download.
Seems to me they could host this game with the license as is.
QUOTE Before posting your game or software
Before you post your game or software to Steam Greenlight, you must agree to the following:
You own the rights to sell the game or software you are posting, or you have specific authorization to represent the developerYou agree to the terms and conditions of the Steam Subscriber Agreement
Additionally, you agree not to post any item to Greenlight that contains the following:
Someone else's game or software, unless you have specific authorization to do soPorn, inappropriate or offensive content, warez, or leaked contentCheating, hacking, or game exploitsThreats of violence or harassment, even as a jokeGames or software using copyrighted material such as assets or intellectual property without permission from the ownerSoliciting, begging, auctioning, selling, advertising, referrals, racism, or discrimination[/quote]
a) We don't own the rights, Microsoft Research does.
b) Solap isn't speaking for MSR.
Last edited by pkk on Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.
Heyy PKK. You're right. I'm not speaking for MSR. I'm talking to Rick Rashid, though, and trying to understand the issue to help him understand how he can help from the inside. I was told you're trying to get a new license. Getting a new license from Microsoft will be a PITA. And there's nothing in the current license that precludes this from happening unless you're trying to profit from it, in which case I doubt Microsoft will help.pkk wrote:QUOTE (pkk @ Apr 19 2015, 02:39 PM) FYI, RTFM:
a) We don't own the rights, Microsoft Research does.
b) Solap isn't speaking for MSR.
But it looks like Steam may be looking for permission, although even then their verbiage may be referring to the case where you're trying to commercialize.
If you're just looking for permission I'd be happy to help broker that. Lemme know how I can help.
Joel
Hi Solap,
Do you think it would be possible to have MS move the license to another MS license? Specifically the MS-PL license: http://opensource.org/licenses/MS-PL
I think that if MS had been on board with the open source movement then, like it is today, MS-PL would have been the license that Allegiance would have gone out under. My gut says chances are that MSR-SSLA was selected was because it was both in play inside MSR and was the closest thing to open source licensing available at the time to use with minimal effort. (Actually, you're probably one of the few people who could confirm that one!
Thanks again for checking up on us, it's a great morale booster to have you stop by!
Also: 7 kids??
Thanks,
-BT
Do you think it would be possible to have MS move the license to another MS license? Specifically the MS-PL license: http://opensource.org/licenses/MS-PL
I think that if MS had been on board with the open source movement then, like it is today, MS-PL would have been the license that Allegiance would have gone out under. My gut says chances are that MSR-SSLA was selected was because it was both in play inside MSR and was the closest thing to open source licensing available at the time to use with minimal effort. (Actually, you're probably one of the few people who could confirm that one!
Thanks again for checking up on us, it's a great morale booster to have you stop by!
Also: 7 kids??
Thanks,
-BT
