Nerve Gas Poll

[jbansk]

QUOTE (Dome @ Jul 29 2014, 05:49 AM) Oh they'll be back..

Turkey maybe, Imago...never

[zombywoof]

NG isn't a serious weapon and afaict wasn't ever meant to be a serious weapon. It serves its purpose at the moment I feel.

[rixo]

QUOTE (Elzam V. Branstein @ Jul 29 2014, 07:02 AM)I think the reason is because it's generally more cost-efficient to just blow the thing up.

This seems entirely situational in my opinion, main reason being that one could cap a base as soon as it finishes building so long as they launch the missile while the base shields are down and while the con has either no escort or a podded escort. It feels more like an end-game tactic to me right now because of how weak NG Stealth Bombers are on their own. A few seconds is all the enemy team needs to launch from their new base, though, and even if the base is capped by the NG Stealth Bomber, the enemy could launch an attack that may end the game anyway.

QUOTE (Elzam V. Branstein @ Jul 29 2014, 07:02 AM)SB runs tend to get run out as soon as they're eyed, and even if you hide an SB with nerve gas while the others blow the shields, the pulse probes/scouts come out and the last guy usually gets spotted before he gets his shot in and then the shields might come up enough while the missile is traveling.

Yet, even if their eyed, they aren't run out before the base is destroyed. The problem is that NG Stealth Bombers load MUCH MUCH slower than the normal stealth bombers do, leaving the bomber at risk after the other bombers are shot down (or even before they are), as well as wasting that $1000 investment and possibly giving it to the enemy team if they manage to pick it up. And even then, if the missile does end up going out the launch bay, its slow movement speed and high signature (250%) makes it an easy target to shoot down.

QUOTE (Elzam V. Branstein @ Jul 29 2014, 07:02 AM)I can't remember off-hand but doesn't nerve gas also have a slightly shorter range? ... According to wiki (CC3), the NG has a range of 104m.

Indeed, the range on NG is 104m according to in-game statistics, HOWEVER, in game description also states that at a NG Stealth Bomber going at a speed of 80mps will bump the effective range of the missile all the way up to 744m. This is because of its minimal starting speed and extremely low acceleration. You would have to load it at the distance other stealth bombers load their AB because of the missile's slow setup time and shorter range.

QUOTE (_xJammer_ @ Jul 29 2014, 10:58 AM)I wonder how would NG work if the missile lifetime was bumped to 30 seconds, 0 accel, 0 starting speed, keeping the signature specs as standard.

This is what would happen if it were set up your way. Hopefully the zero starting speed doesn't imply that the missile is now just a wanna-be proximity minefield.

A NG Stealth Bomber has a max speed of 97. 97mps x 30s = 2910m range. The missile has a total loading time of around 18s. 18s x 97mps = 1746m buffer range to get the missile ready. You would need to set up at 2910m + 1746m range (already going at full speed) to have the missile at it's firing range if it were set up like that, xJammer. By the time you got in range, cloaked and at 132% sig having loaded your missile, you would be seen at the 3168m range (2400m scan range on any base that's not a garrison, x1.32 sig on NG Stealth Bomber), not accounting for probage by the enemy team. It would be possible to get your shot off and rip out, but the missile would still have to travel a long way to its target which would still need to be unshielded. Do note that (as explained at the bottom of the post) that I tested with all GAs researched, so the signatures listed here should be 20% higher.

tl;dr: Someone would need to get the base down to critical health and distract while you loaded the missile at around 4600m, and fired the missile as soon as you're going at full speed at 2900m (max range). Then you'd immediately rip out and pray that the missile isn't intercepted by Babelfish.

QUOTE (Djole @ Jul 29 2014, 05:15 AM)Will you play with us to test it?

Tested NG missiles on Rixian on my own for all information relating to this post, with all GAs researched. There may be some differences among other factions as well as differences in the stats above, specifically any signature readings I listed in response to xJammer. I'd be happy to see NG used more and hope to test it sometime today, maybe tomorrow since I have classes today.

[Archangelus]

2 things: hvy cloak and teamwork. (Ah, and dont come with all the bull@#(! about how hc gonna eat your energy before you get even close enough to shoot, read 3rd line).

PS: did you ever consider how "amusement" ng would bring, if it was as easy to use to cap things (considering it can cap even teleports), as a htt?

Things are there for a reason. How you gonna use them, determines how smart you are.

Just to keep on topic, I remember spidey using ng to cap bases at least twice. And champyx at least once.

It is just indeed (for the average alleg player) that hard to get enough teamwork to make that happen, but if you plan to use it, it is indeed a viable endgame, considering you use it properly.

As I think, the only downside about ng, is the sb being easilly distinguished by the others, while it shouldnt. Everything else shouldnt be touched.

[_xJammer_]

Archy the issue is that if you can pull off enough teamwork to make ng happen, you have enough teamwork to steamroll the other team with just pure sbs (without needing to cap bases).

Rixo, good analysis, I was not imagining a single ng sb in this case, but multiple, the missiles can also be fired with normal sbs setup (due to 0 accel), so they arrive as soon as the base shields are down (as abs would travel in front of the other sbs).

Basically it would require similar amount of teamwork, but of a different type (currently any intelligent defender would be able to snipe the ng sb with little difficulty unless the base is camped). And while ng sb will be eyed by the base before launch, defenders now have to deal with cloaked sbs on the approach rather than the ng sb. In the ensuing mess I'd expect the smaller ng missile (and you can have multiple of them as your ng bbr will survive) to have higher chance of survival than ng-sb that has to sit for ~18 seconds eyed 1k on the approach praying that no int will notice him.

[Djole88]

What I used the ng for is to recap a base... I think that is its purpose and that should remain its purpose. Makes no sense to me if we give a viable htt option to the Tac path
ng is already handy since it can cap tps and specs... if you are exp its a pain to d against that

P.S. Once I saw Firestorm solo capping a base with sb/ng

[Malicious Wraith]

Its actually surprisingly easy to use on outposts, where defense is slower to react and you can slot it into a rotation of what would normally be 3 ABS... just 2 abs + NG on the followup

[BlackBagel]

NG bbrs can't carry AB's so you still need teamwork.

I tend to agree with the idea that NG never gets used because it's simpler to just blow things up.

[Shizoku]

They're great vs dreg spec refs.

[Archangelus]

QUOTE (_xJammer_ @ Jul 30 2014, 05:45 AM) Archy the issue is that if you can pull off enough teamwork to make ng happen, you have enough teamwork to steamroll the other team with just pure sbs (without needing to cap bases).

You are implying that ng sbs, should be as easy to use as regular sbs?


If that happens I will happly sit and watch all the complaints that we had back on with bios sup over DN.

Ng are harder for a reason, and you are forgeting that they can be used to cap ANYTHING, not just TECH. You are really astonishing with such statement, considering you should know the impact a capped base can inflict overall the gamemap and strategy.

Capping techbases are harder because of importance, not because ng is useless. Base sig and everything else affects the chance of its success, but isnt just for ng sbs, but for every single endgame tech.