Greece - demise of the eurozone as we know it?

[minigun]

[raumvogel]

I feel sorry for the Rothschilds.

[TheCorsair]

Hey, Germany: You Got a Bailout, Too

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-23/m...ed-out-too.html

[pkk]

Let's keep it simple:
My fellow Americans Greeks, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

[Adept]

So TC, you don't admit to being a greek nationalist. Why exactly are you such a firebrand in this then, and taking such a one-sided view?

For Cthulhu's sake you even defended the insanely bloated military Greece is running. How do you expect us to take you as an impartial concerned citizen with these views?

[Camaro]

QUOTE (TheCorsair @ May 27 2012, 03:25 AM) Hey, Germany: You Got a Bailout, Too

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-23/m...ed-out-too.html

At some point people will realize that Central Banking creates more problems than it solves and we can move towards a more sane monetary policy based on sound money and market driven interest rates. Until then we will continually repeat the mistakes of our past and delude ourselves into believing that government can fix the mess that they themselves helped create.

[TheCorsair]

QUOTE (pkk @ May 27 2012, 11:36 PM) Let's keep it simple:
My fellow Americans Greeks, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.

Nice speech there when you had the USA to bankroll you for half a century and rebuild you, enforcing debt relief and delaying war reparations in some cases to never for countries like Greece.

Wonder what you would of said if Morgethnau Merkel was imposed on you instead.

Those Who Live in Glass Houses Should not Throw Stones.

[Vortrog]

QUOTE (TheCorsair @ May 28 2012, 07:27 AM) Those Who Live in Glass Houses Should not Throw Stones.

You know corsair, my uncle said it really well after relocating to Australia in '48 after 4 years in refugee camps in Germany 'Australia is my country now, those who still dream of their homeland as a better place should just go back there'

You staunchly defend Greece likes its your own country. Going back there soon?

[tsubaki_sanjuro]

QUOTE (Camaro @ May 27 2012, 09:07 PM) At some point people will realize that Central Banking creates more problems than it solves and we can move towards a more sane monetary policy based on sound money and market driven interest rates. Until then we will continually repeat the mistakes of our past and delude ourselves into believing that government can fix the mess that they themselves helped create.

The problem with this is that the market isnt in a position to set interest rates either, at least whilst "the market" is in fact a selection of nation-state markets who have varying degrees of financial power and have or are exposed to varying degrees of political influence.

Agri would post more but Jamelia is on BBC 1, in a rather fetching and low cut black dress.

[Camaro]

QUOTE (tsubaki_sanjuro @ May 27 2012, 12:17 PM) The problem with this is that the market isnt in a position to set interest rates either, at least whilst "the market" is in fact a selection of nation-state markets who have varying degrees of financial power and have or are exposed to varying degrees of political influence.

Agri would post more but Jamelia is on BBC 1, in a rather fetching and low cut black dress.

The market can adjust accordingly.

The most important thing is that nations retain their sovereignty in currencies.

The second most important thing, is that their markets are allowed to set interest rates, this will control the tide of inflation and reign in their governments - forcing them to spend within their limits - with devastating effects for those who overspend... but with sovereign control over their currency, they can avoid default a the trade-off of ruining their economy for perhaps a decade or so. The idea is that a government will be aware of its high cost of operations and avoid such a predicament in the first place.

Third - financial restrictions will need to be put in place to prevent nations with government controlled currency from flooding markets with easy credit. I think this is a pretty self-evident one... easy American credit (by mandate of the Fed) to Americans and other nations created a massive bubble... which obviously is no good. Even today, America has very easy credit and low interest rates... well below what they would be with market driven interest rates.


The primary argument against having market driven interest rates is that there is an increased instance of recessions - but keep this is mind... if the economy grows 5%, but inflation is 10%, then the economy actually shrunk -5% although it avoids the definition of a recession. If GDP shrunk -2%, but there was deflation of -3%, then that means that the economy grew 1% despite the fact that it may fit the definition of a recession.

Now I know what your thinking - but Camaro, the GDP numbers already reflect inflation. Yes, they reflect governmental numbers, which have been heavily tweaked to show considerably lower inflation than is present in the economy. One only needs to observe the financial stress on people as they get their daily items to see this. So an inflation adjusted GDP growth of 3%, when real inflation is ~10% represents the economy SHRINKING by 7%.

So I ask you, what is worse, relatively mild recessions and steady value of currency, or constant inflation with recessions even though it doesn't fit the technical definition of it?