Remove ELO from the game alltogether

[WhiskeyGhost]

QUOTE (ToXiC @ Jan 6 2007, 05:36 PM) Maybe mp, but ask yourself this:

WHY do ppl stack?
WHY do ppl whore around instead of doing useful things like naning etc?
WHY wont ppl give a more unexperienced comm a chance?

Because losing hurts your interests. Thats why.

well not entirely

1st response, cause people don't like losing generally. Some do enjoy the game for playing, but others can't take losing at all regardless of the situation (real life included)

2nd response, people whore because there is more appeal when you take down an enemy, rather then prevent one from taking down an ally. It makes ya feel superior podding people over and over, but nanning a bomber makes you feel like a grunt. ( would you rather fight someone, or go mine he3 rocks an entire game?)

3rd response, this happens sometimes, but the problem with that is If you were given the option of flying for "Well known Commander 'A' " or "Just some random guy 'B' ", all the good players/people that apply to the first question, will join 'A' because they know they will have a big advantage either techwise, coordination, or just sheer skill from his pilots.

There are exceptions of course, but thats pretty much the majority of it.

oh, and btw, the leaderboard is probably the worst of it all, if your saying losing hurts your interests, since ELO at least tries to balance games out, while a leaderboard promotes.........well...........whoring

[TheBored]

QUOTE (ToXiC @ Jan 6 2007, 06:36 PM) Maybe mp, but ask yourself this:

WHY do ppl stack?
WHY do ppl whore around instead of doing useful things like naning etc?
WHY wont ppl give a more unexperienced comm a chance?

Because losing hurts your interests. Thats why. And that interest is ranking, ELO, Score, whatever.
Its the whole concept of having a score and rating system. It promotes stacking, doing tings that bumps your score instead of getting with the team, etc. etc.
Its like a cancer.

Imagine this for arguments sake:

Game ends, instead of normal score boards you just see total score of both teams. No permament record is kept, thus it doenst matter if you lose or win. Presto.
I dont see a reason why that would be worse than what we have now.

Come to think of it. You shouldnt be able to see who is on the teams either until you join. /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Aww. Forget it. You guys aren't ready for this.

People stacked more before stats than they do now. Explain that.

Again, I'm not an ELO fan, but his argument has too many holes to just pass up /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

TB

[Doobie]

Personally I'd like to see Player Stats, like in sports. Stuff like:
Total Kills
Total Ejects
Wins
Loses
Last 10 kills
Last 10 Killers
Player killed Most
Player killed by most
+/-
Highest KB
Longest Unpodded
Favorite Ship
Favorite Weapon
Favorite Faction
Accuracy
...
ect.

[Lykourgos]

Toxic, I haven't really noticed any change in the stacking situation in the time I've been here- ELO made a couple of people stack more in the first month or so after we could see ranks, but those people were usually stacking anyway.

Doobie, that's a cool idea, but I suspect it would be somewhat hard to code and expensive in memory.

When was the last reset? I'm kind of mildly curious how closely ELO is correlating to skill these days, but I suspect that the last reset was too recent to judge by the ranks I see online right now.

[MrChaos]

QUOTE (ToXiC @ Jan 6 2007, 06:36 PM) Maybe mp, but ask yourself this:

WHY do ppl stack?
WHY do ppl whore around instead of doing useful things like naning etc?
WHY wont ppl give a more unexperienced comm a chance?

Because losing hurts your interests. Thats why. And that interest is ranking, ELO, Score, whatever.
Its the whole concept of having a score and rating system. It promotes stacking, doing tings that bumps your score instead of getting with the team, etc. etc.
Its like a cancer.

Imagine this for arguments sake:

Game ends, instead of normal score boards you just see total score of both teams. No permament record is kept, thus it doenst matter if you lose or win. Presto.
I dont see a reason why that would be worse than what we have now.

Come to think of it. You shouldnt be able to see who is on the teams either until you join. /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Aww. Forget it. You guys aren't ready for this.

NO people stack becase they want that winning feeling. Why the heck do you think almost all games have "cheats" so people can short circuit the game to win. Do you even undestand how Elo works? It's based on whether the TEAM wins and loses. You get points only if the TEAM wins. if you get 584785 kills and the TEAM loses you lose too. If you play your roll right and the TEAM wins you win. All of your INDIVIDUAL stats arent used in anyway to give you your ranking.

Next me seeing your rank allows me to evaluate things and pick the team that makes a fair balanced game. All your names have your rank, the same one, attached and all your names effect the rank. So hiders $#@!ing up game balance with ranks showing is a crock. hiders $#@!ing up game balance without them showing is a proven fact.

Your "imagine this" scenerio was around back in the day of MS Allegiance days as you well know, it was called the FZ. People stacked their winkies off there too. Also note that as soon as it was possible everyone moved to the permanent stats side AZ. Given a choice peole want stats, rankings, medals, prizes, they just dont want to have crappy ones.

Save this no winners and losers crap for some psycho-babble book you are writing on childhood play tactics to save the whales and end world hunger.

MrChaos says, " Snarky is as snarky does but please get your facts straight before you play the role of holier then thou"

PS You can thank Apochi for the Snarky MrChaos. NEXT!

[Gappy]

Hiders don't break ELO, ELO breaks hiders /mad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mad:" border="0" alt="mad.gif" />

[MrChaos]

QUOTE (Gappy @ Jan 6 2007, 07:43 PM) Hiders don't break ELO, ELO breaks hiders /mad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":mad:" border="0" alt="mad.gif" />

Yeah Gappy I agree completely. Hiders can't break Elo since some one was smart enough to rank them together, so you cant hider stack. But I dont know who it is with a high rank so at least you can hide your identity. Isnt that what it's exactly meant to do hide your identity and not your rank?

MrChaos

[ToXiC]

I disagree. ELO doesnt indicate skill, it just indicates your stacking ability.

[Gappy]

I'm the only person at my rank, thus it makes it impossible for me to use a hider. It could change when ELO is finally calculated, but given that the leaderboard could be used to figure out high-ranked players' hiders anyway, I doubt it.

[MrChaos]

QUOTE (ToXiC @ Jan 6 2007, 08:27 PM) I disagree. ELO doesnt indicate skill, it just indicates your stacking ability.

Toxic man first you thought Elo worked off of individual achievements or that is at least what you posted. So how can I take what you say on the subject seriously? Please stop picking saying out of the Big Book of Objections and repeat them. Cause that is such a provocative statement Im going to call shenanigans without proof. Are you saying guys like Aarm, Culmn, Shiz etc are only high ranks because they stack? In comparision to say me? I beg to differ.


Look if we are getting to the Elo ranking system isnt the best thing since sliced bread for individual rankings of players for team based games that involve frequent player changes. Id say there are better ones out there for sure. Im NOT saying that Elo is completely crap just there are better ones around. Please remember the bestest ranking system isnt going to be 100% accurate. Uncertainity percentage multiple across players for instaneous, also higher percent perdictions usually take more time.

MrChaos