tsubaki_sanjuro wrote:QUOTE (tsubaki_sanjuro @ Aug 9 2011, 11:05 AM) as for the girl rumour, agri knows for a fact that when those cars got burnt in tottenham there were no cops with shields on tottenham high road - they only came later, after the cars got done and after a lot of bottles had been hurled at the cops. if some bint got bashed then, it was only after things had kicked off.
Thanks for the insight into that. Its difficult enough figuring out which news sources in the US are credible and which are trashy rags. Figuring out where different ones in the UK fall is something I haven't bothered with (and why I tried to couch the girl story in unconfirmed language)
Don't suppose you have anything to share about reports of the initial shooting incident. Wading through things the current story looks like the dead man had a gun, an officer felt threatened and fired, killed the man without the man firing at all, and one of the officer's bullets struck another officer's radio. This in turn conflicts with earlier stories of an exchange of fire and the man putting a bullet in some officer's radio. Obviously, if sharing anything would get you in trouble, I don't expect you to do so.
Last edited by Lindy_Hop on Tue Aug 09, 2011 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Dang it I'm a guy! The Lindy Hop is a dance named after the great aviator Charles Lindbergh and his "hop" over the Atlantic."
Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Aug 9 2011, 03:15 PM) Let me get this straight Mp, you think that the government policy solution should be Batman?
I'm suggesting that the government policy is batman (or rather vigilante groups).
Are you suggesting that batman wouldn't be able to sort this stuff out?
I was kinda shooting for reductio ad absurdum of the "Big Society" - in which the conservatives cut funding to everything on the basis that private individuals, companies and community groups will pick up the slack. I was showing that perhaps the dispensing of justice is best left to the police rather than community efforts. So I was essentially being sarcastic by saying the absurd as if it was a good idea.
Camaro wrote:QUOTE (Camaro @ Aug 9 2011, 09:24 AM) Shot by police?
I thought your policemen carried batons?
It's all fun and games until the armed response team arrives.
tsubaki_sanjuro wrote:QUOTE (tsubaki_sanjuro @ Aug 9 2011, 03:34 PM) ...but also that if there is any repeat of this, or the wave of "normal" criminality that has been accepted from a significant number of youths and adults for far too long by the rest of society, they will be stomped flat.
agri has some positives though. there are mobs of people cleaning up right now, a group of turkish shop owners and family ran off a mob of looters last night, and there was this:
I loved hearing about those turkish shop owners. Good job them.
And yeah, the chav culture just has to change. Something is rotten in the green and pleasant land. The remaining class society structure also needs to be taken behind the shed and shot.
Last edited by Adept on Tue Aug 09, 2011 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
<bp|> Maybe when I grow up I can be a troll like PsycH <bp|> or an obsessive compulsive paladin of law like Adept
Bring back the penal colonies! I think it's a joke how illegal immigrants contribute more to society then these chavs yet they are the ones who get deported.
MrChaos wrote:QUOTE (MrChaos @ Aug 9 2011, 12:53 PM) Trust me when the government finally has to resort to laying down some Northern Ireland loving on the "Chavs" THEN it will be really $#@!ing cool!!!!!
Wierdly I get your point and all but...
Its all fun and games until they steal everything you own and then burn your @#(! down. The reprecussions will resonate through British society for generations. *points to his friend Raum's post as an example* and stay with those who saw it or even experienced through the media and will color their views about the city and now the nation for the rest of their lives.
Trust me Valiance it is beginning to make YOU by association look really really bad to the smelly foreign types. I'd suspect that teams of smelly foreign journalists are already putting together the script for the "tsk tsk how did this happen and how is it English society's fault" videos as I'm typing these words. The soccer/hockey/basket/baseball rioting is kinda become old hat. This kind of sustained rioting in a Western country gets those hands a wringing but good.
MrChaos <--- kept wanting to play on the tank parked in front of his house during the riots. Sue me I was like two at the time.
edit:
Well to be absolutely fair while the rioting is about to equal the one in Detroit in terms of days and approaching it in terms of mindless destruction, there hasn't been nearly the level of deadly force being used by either side, nor whole sale arrests. That IMHO has everything to do with the level headed response of the police to date. The sending in of the National Guard in Detroit got things going right proper. Remember in 1967 Detroit was thought of a "model city" and a "shining example" of racial harmony. Given all of that maybe it won't hang around your collective necks like a stinking dead albatross like it has in Detroit. I surely hope so and maybe I'm just viewing it from that perspective
Now hold on just one cotton-picking minute MrC, I get that you have a better perspective on these things, however you totally took my post out of context -- you took that little line where I said "I guess its kind of cool in way" and didn't quote the bit where I explained that really this stuff most certainly isn't cool and only seems as such at first glance, as at first glance I assumed this was a political thing -- I assumed it was about cuts and big-society and people generally hating the $#@!ing tories, and I thought "Good-oh! Keep at it old sports", however the rest of my post explains that really there is nothing cool about this at all and how that "I guess its kind of cool in a way" isn't actually my view at all.
PS, props for Coleridge reference
Last edited by Valiance on Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
there will always be classes in any society, some more equal than others
QUOTE Drizzo: ha ha good old chap
Drizzo: i am a brit
Drizzo: tut tut
Drizzo: wankarrrrrr
Drizzo: i only have sex whilst in the missionary position[/quote] Fas est et ab hoste doceri - Ovid
yep snipped the @#(! out it to get to the point that made me write my stuff. It was a taking off point. My intention was NOT to put you in the light of some butt chunk who rooting for violence. Honest. I was driving to work after typing it and almost turned around to type a second edit. Its just I felt a need to type something about what Im seeing and what happened to the place Ive called home most of my life.
I have a completely misguided view of England and the English, and in a good way. No @#(!. In my mind England is filled with people Ive met here on these forums and honestly to a person Ive liked every $#@!ing one of you... even if Raveen smells
My one and only time in England was spent shuttling between Shepperton and Baker's flat in London then merrily off to goodness knows where drinking and wenching every night. If you had asked me I'd have told you then London was incrediblely safe, almost comically so, and the outskirts of London to the north where provencial... so imagine my shock when I found out where the rioting took place.
So when I began to read about the rioting really kicking off it just made me sad. Sad for you. Sad another nice little misconception was ripped off from me and especially think of the many people Ive come to know from the area. It got me to reflecting the effects the god damn riot had on the area, the people, and especially those who had nothing to do with in any way here in Detroit. We never recovered from it. People moved out, many who would never dream of moving left, the races polarized, distrust brewed, and jobs started leaving. It was a tremendous fall from grace. Detoit was considered the MOST desirable place to live in middle America and was the fastest growing as well. Three of the five largest corporations in world were headquartered inside its borders.
It has never $#@!ing stopped from the day after an awful riot that happen over 40 years ago. Det-riot. What a @#(! hole. Ever $#@!ing thing is written from a negative perspective and well it becomes a self fulfilling, self loathing slam dunk. There is no amount of pictures you can show to counter act it. People just think Detroit = @#(!. The THIRD RICHEST COUNTY IN THE USA WAS RIGHT ON THE BORDER OF THE CITY OF DETROIT. THE THIRD. The pictures posted on this very website was of my high school. One of the top ten public high schools in the entire country for almost a hundred years. They built a world class, award winning building to replace the almost 100 year old school. They had plans to renovate it that never happened and one day the old school caught on fire... back in about 2008. The results of all those phots was $#@!ing water damage from the fire. Btw it is impossible for the ghouls to have missed the school it replaced, $#@!ed they had almost certainly to edit it out of the pics they took of the old school. Wouldn't fit the image the rest of the world "knows".
Is Detroit in a shambles, absolutely there are entire areas that are abandoned and why? Detroit and iirc Lenningrad have/had by far the largest percentage of single family dwelling to population wordwide. Remember we were a boom town FILLED with people with great jobs and tons of cash to the very day of the rioting. After that it was a series of slides down the fortunes of the auto industry until the hammer blow.
Remember the Naughts economic downturn, I do. People lost everything here and all at once. It hit here first, hardest, and longest and the results were people left in droves with many losing an entire life's worth of efforts in the process. Many became job gypsies trying to keep their homes... like me. I lived out of state, paying for an apartment AND my home back in one of the Detroit suburbs for about four years waiting for work so I can move home again. In a water cooler story moment just counting today only, over half of the recent hires have a similar story. I didn't take a hand out, give back my home, @#(! I lost money and kept paying my mortgage. I made sure my home was kept up and took care of family back home too. Many of those I talked to today had the exact same tale.
So what does the world do during this time? Share the kicked in the nuts but never say quit spirit of this area? Nope they play on the same $#@!ing theme for the last forty $#@!ing years "oh my poor Detroit" stories but told in the same way as a National Geographic reel of a baby Impala being pulled into the river and drown by a croc. On the other side of the coin was plenty of "$#@! those lazy auto workers they had it coming to them. What a @#(!hole, good riddence". I was living out of state during the worst of it and trust me I heard it time and again.
So really what I was jabbering on about like a monkey was Im seeing it happening to a town I kind of have a crush on and worried it will tear out the heart of the area in a slow, sad, dive into becoming, well another Detroit
HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Aug 9 2011, 12:34 PM) Bring back the penal colonies! I think it's a joke how illegal immigrants contribute more to society then these chavs yet they are the ones who get deported.
The illegals take the jobs that others would have filled. Some of the "chavs" are just bums, but some of them are pissed off that they can't find employment.
