Londoners

[MrChaos]

QUOTE (Valiance @ Aug 9 2011, 06:35 AM) * snip* Its kind of cool in a way *snip*

Trust me when the government finally has to resort to laying down some Northern Ireland loving on the "Chavs" THEN it will be really $#@!ing cool!!!!!

Wierdly I get your point and all but...
Its all fun and games until they steal everything you own and then burn your @#(! down. The reprecussions will resonate through British society for generations. *points to his friend Raum's post as an example* and stay with those who saw it or even experienced through the media and will color their views about the city and now the nation for the rest of their lives.

Trust me Valiance it is beginning to make YOU by association look really really bad to the smelly foreign types. I'd suspect that teams of smelly foreign journalists are already putting together the script for the "tsk tsk how did this happen and how is it English society's fault" videos as I'm typing these words. The soccer/hockey/basket/baseball rioting is kinda become old hat. This kind of sustained rioting in a Western country gets those hands a wringing but good.

MrChaos <--- kept wanting to play on the tank parked in front of his house during the riots. Sue me I was like two at the time.


edit:

Well to be absolutely fair while the rioting is about to equal the one in Detroit in terms of days and approaching it in terms of mindless destruction, there hasn't been nearly the level of deadly force being used by either side, nor whole sale arrests. That IMHO has everything to do with the level headed response of the police to date. The sending in of the National Guard in Detroit got things going right proper. Remember in 1967 Detroit was thought of a "model city" and a "shining example" of racial harmony. Given all of that maybe it won't hang around your collective necks like a stinking dead albatross like it has in Detroit. I surely hope so and maybe I'm just viewing it from that perspective

[tsubaki_sanjuro]

if anything good comes of this madness, its that the scales must surely fall from peoples eyes with regards to how dangerous some people in our society are. there are several thousand people in london who behaved last night in a manner that arguably deserves a bullet in the head, not just with organized looting, robbery of other people and general *#$@ishness but with the deliberate arson of shops which clearly have flats above them.



what we need now is for this to stop, someone has already died (a bloke in croydon) and if noone else has thus far then it will be a miracle. we then need to ensure that society understands that people will be supported if they want to better themselves, if they want to get a job and if they want to educate themselves - but also that if there is any repeat of this, or the wave of "normal" criminality that has been accepted from a significant number of youths and adults for far too long by the rest of society, they will be stomped flat.

agri has some positives though. there are mobs of people cleaning up right now, a group of turkish shop owners and family ran off a mob of looters last night, and there was this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkWtMNBgf48...player_embedded

[madpeople]

Well, as long as people stop for afternoon tea all is well


Isn't this something the "Big Society" is supposed to fix - communities should be stepping in to provide services which have been cut.

The funding for the police has been cut, so if people don't want this sort of antisocial behaviour they should form neighbourhood vigilante groups and sort it out.

Also : http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/15/t...-violent-unrest

[Raveen]

Let me get this straight Mp, you think that the government policy solution should be Batman?

Things are cooking up for another night of trouble tonight and it seems that prosperous areas are being targeted for 'attack'. Makes me wonder exactly how organised this all is, it doesn't feel like nebulous organic destruction so much as an orchestrated crime wave with assorted associated hangers on.

[Lindy_Hop]

QUOTE (tsubaki_sanjuro @ Aug 9 2011, 08:34 AM) if anything good comes of this madness, its that the scales must surely fall from peoples eyes with regards to how dangerous some people in our society are. there are several thousand people in london who behaved last night in a manner that arguably deserves a bullet in the head, not just with organized looting, robbery of other people and general *#$@ishness but with the deliberate arson of shops which clearly have flats above them.

You speak as if you believe people think through their actions in mob situations. I certainly do not mean to condone rioting or arson, but do you seriously think that people in the mob had the thought process of, "I am going to f$&* s#%$ up! Oh wait there is a flat above this shop. I wonder if there are people still up there. Toss it, burn it anyway!" or was their thought process "I am going to f$&* s#%$ up!" Once again I am not condoning what is happening but there is a difference between deliberate arson with the intent to harm the people in a flat above (you have my blessing to go shoot such a monster in the head) and just being stupid (in which case some jail time is needed but I am not on board with a bullet to the head).

After all stupid is sort of endemic to the human condition. If some reports are to be believed the initial violence errupted after a 16 year old girl (stupidly) threw a rock at a line of riot police. Now I am no expert in police doctrine or proportionate responses, but I do believe that 15 officers beating that girl down with their shields and in turn mobilizing the crowd to violence was a darn stupid thing to do.

[HSharp]

Each person is responsible for their own actions, it does not matter that they have not thought of the consequences but they should be fully punished and shown no leniency. I do hope the police plan on doing something other being mobile walls if more looting kicks off tonight.

It will probably die down once the rain starts in a few days.

[Lindy_Hop]

QUOTE (HSharp @ Aug 9 2011, 10:52 AM) Each person is responsible for their own actions, it does not matter that they have not thought of the consequences but they should be fully punished and shown no leniency.

/Shrug. No clue how your laws are set up across the pond, but in the US intent and thought is a big deal. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(Unite...e_United_States for the quick break down with regards to loss of life. Items lower on the list have less harsh sentences than items higher on the list. Even for crimes less serious than loss of life, intent often factors into sentencing.

[tsubaki_sanjuro]

QUOTE (Lindy_Hop @ Aug 9 2011, 03:40 PM) You speak as if you believe people think through their actions in mob situations. I certainly do not mean to condone rioting or arson, but do you seriously think that people in the mob had the thought process of, "I am going to f$&* s#%$ up! Oh wait there is a flat above this shop. I wonder if there are people still up there. Toss it, burn it anyway!" or was their thought process "I am going to f$&* s#%$ up!" Once again I am not condoning what is happening but there is a difference between deliberate arson with the intent to harm the people in a flat above (you have my blessing to go shoot such a monster in the head) and just being stupid (in which case some jail time is needed but I am not on board with a bullet to the head).

After all stupid is sort of endemic to the human condition. If some reports are to be believed the initial violence errupted after a 16 year old girl (stupidly) threw a rock at a line of riot police. Now I am no expert in police doctrine or proportionate responses, but I do believe that 15 officers beating that girl down with their shields and in turn mobilizing the crowd to violence was a darn stupid thing to do.

lindy the people who are doing this are the same people who rob other kids, who form gangs and who generally ruin the lives of people on these estates. they have, thanks to the utter failure of youth justice in this country and the disinterest of society at large, managed to get to the point where (i) they really dont give a @#(! and (ii) have a lengthy record of badness, with no fear of the punishment because unless they actually kill someone they dont get serious jail time, at least up until their 18th birthday. they know what they did, and even if they pull ten dead kids out of those flats they wont lose any sleep over it, or at least they wont hand themselves in (or better yet, kill themselves).

as for the girl rumour, agri knows for a fact that when those cars got burnt in tottenham there were no cops with shields on tottenham high road - they only came later, after the cars got done and after a lot of bottles had been hurled at the cops. if some bint got bashed then, it was only after things had kicked off.

[SP4WN]

It kicked off due to a man being shot by our special armed police, trident.

The man was shot after exchanging fire with the officers, there was a bullet lodged in an officers radio from the mans pistol. Its his own fault, you fire at someone who is trained to kill, you will die.

So the family and friends of the gentlemen decided to have a peaceful protest to get answers about the shooting. someone pissed off a copper, the copper retaliated.
They then set one squad car on fire, then rolled another into the road and set that on fire.

This sparked it all off. People are dicks and this is mindless bollocks where certain communities are out for what they can get and dont care of the consequences.

It appears the majority are of asian and black origin from our lowest areas of society so have the least to lose and most to gain.

I still cannot condone it, as someone who grew up in an area likeable to the american ghetto and dragged himself out of it, only to lose everything again, it would be easy to blame society and how unfair it is. But i dont, they shouldn't.

On a side note, its already kicking off in salford and canal street in manchester. They have also mobilised 16,000 units for london tonight.

[Duckwarrior]

David Cameron is like the headmaster threatening everyone with detention.

This is the result of social inequality. Cameron, Hague et al have no frame of reference to draw from. They have no empathy for kids living on Tottenham or Brixton housing estates, because they are devout believers in the pulling yourself up by your own bootlaces mantra. They have always been privileged, so while they mouth inanity about "The Big Society". What they really mean is "The Big Status Quo-but on the cheap". They wait to be told how to react by the joint worst printed press in the free world, just like most of the country do.

The majority of the rioters probably couldn't articulate their reasons for rioting. They just know that they aren't on the same team as the government and the police, so bollocks to it, let's have a row. The OB don't have it easy, they have to enforce the @#(! that comes out of the Home Office. respect for them is diminshed because they are enforcing @#(! laws that are really just another form of taxation. Don't even get me started on PCSO's, the whole concept of which makes me want to vomit.

We don't have leaders, we have contestants for a reality TV popularity contest.