My first few weeks

Allegiance discussion not belonging in another forum.
Moto
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:37 pm

Post by Moto »

Thanks to all the people who have tried to help me learn the game since I started playing: Legend, BigNRich, Botz[something] and many more. Without them I probably would not have stuck around even this long. I think any of the hard core experienced players should probably ignore this post as it is just the ramblings of a noob. I realize some of you have been playing this for years (suck it up noob!), but I have not and all of these things seem like problems and barriers to me. I apologize in advance for my lack of skills, knowledge, poor writing ability and not knowing where I should post this. :unsure:

I read in another post, which I cannot find now, that some people wanted feedback as to why players don’t stay with the game. I can only state what has been frustrating from my point of view and why it is hard to want to keep playing. I am trying to be helpful here and this actually took me a few hours to compile, so please don’t take this as just whining.

1. Installation:
a. I did not get my initial account confirmation email. Ok, stuff happens and I may be blind, but at the time I could find any clear information in the Wiki on what to when this happens. Sorry if I missed it, but I did look although I may have not known the proper search terms. I did post in the help forum and did receive a quick reply, which was excellent and contributed to me wanting to stick around when I had future troubles. Suggestion: Updating the Wiki and putting a few account problem solutions right on the ASGS login page would be extremely helpful and might cut down on new users having to search for them.
b. Having to make a separate account for the forums. Yeah, nothing new and most games are like this, but it was just another annoying step. Suggestion: Make an option to create a forum account at the same time or even have them linked somehow. It should be quick and easy as possible. The fewer steps for new users the better.
c. Direct X 9 requirement for Windows 7. Suggestion: It would be nice if the installer told me I needed this instead of having to deal with an error message. Grrr.
d. Weird administration privilege requirement every time I need to play the game. Really? Maybe I did something wrong but this seems to be asking a lot of trust. I understand installing any program requires trust, but the fact that the game has must have admin rights every time is really off putting and annoying. I actually considered uninstalling the game right then, but the excellent help forum response on my first problem swayed me just enough. However, every time I run the game that nagging question of trust comes to the front of my mind. I keep asking myself whether this game is worth having installed every time I have to enter my admin password. If I have installed it wrong (really?), please let me know. Suggestion: (if this is actually how things are supposed to work) make it not require this.
e. It installed icons on all of my user desktops. Another annoying tick on the initial user experience, but it is not even optional or even just one account.
2. In game Training Tutorials:
a. This is huge. The default controls are crap, especially the keyboard layout. You need 4 hands with that set up once you start playing real games even assuming the user has a mouse. Once I got online I realized that you really need to be able to press many things at once to be able to effectively fly anything other than Interceptor. What is worse is that you initially think these settings are optimal because they are the default. Nothing seems be further from the truth and I ended up wasting hours learning a setup that is actually useless. Suggestion: I don’t know, but the Cadet Wiki one kinda sucks too. I am sure it will likely be impossible to find a consensus on a better layout, but it seems that the few people that have talked to me do not use the default. This continues to waste hours of my time.
b. Does any of us noobs really have any business learning command before becoming a good pilot??? Really???
c. I think the thing that was the biggest joke was the “Try to defeat at least one wave, blah blah blah before you can consider yourself ready for real combat” line. Bull freakin crap! I got my butt creeeeeamed in every dog fight once I got online. I thought that other players were cheating almost immediately, obviously not true, but this is not the kind of experience you should want new players to have. While I learned more through the observation of other players, as you do with any online game, I felt I had been misled by the training tutorials. After figuring a few things out, I spent days in the combat test just killing wave after wave of ships and did not quit until I could live almost indefinitely. Even this was barely enough preparation. Suggestion: At a minimum the whole multiple side thrusting maneuvers to avoid enemy fire really needs to be more extensively covered before players get online. Hell, the enemy ships in the tutorials don’t seem to side thrust at all so it is a whole new experience when fighting real pilots.
d. One whole training mission just on the most common abbreviations would have been a god send. I am talking about Ints, Figs, FBees, Nans (covered at least), Prox, Galv etc. Once online, I had no freaking clue what the hell everyone was talking about because it was all short hand. Hell, I am still lost. I don’t think you guys realize just how much of a language barrier there is here. Suggestion: I know there are tons, but at least cover the most important ones.
e. In general, the whole tutorial trainer is horribly minimal at best and misleading at worst. I understand now the need for the Cadet classes, but the fact that I need an actual training class to play a game is… like WTF? You know? I appreciate that players are willing to do this but wow! oO Suggestion: More detailed and extensive in game tutorials before players even get online especially for combat.
3. Wiki (Tech and Learning):
a. To be honest, without this and people constantly being helpful, I probably would have quit last week. Suggestion: Make its existence even more in your face for us noobs. I am not kidding here; make it a big ass animated button/link/ad whatever on top of every page. Our biggest problem is that we don’t know what we don’t know, ya know? Ooo, maybe a random tip on top of every page?
b. I am almost thinking that it should be a required read before even getting into an online game, but that might be too much… too… overwhelming. I swear, I have a cycle:
i. Play a game.
ii. I try to restrict myself to a few questions per game and most of the time people are very helpful.
iii. Consult Wiki, repeat. To be honest, this is not exactly fun.
c. It is still missing tons of stuff. I had searches didn’t yield any answers. Most of the time I don’t know what to actually search for… there is so much terminology to learn. Do you guys see a search history in the Wiki?
d. It is probably my lack of knowledge but it does not seem that well organized. Yeah, this is probably just me.
4. In Game Help: F1 Help is kinda useless… a mini Wiki is not what I need and the window is way too small and there are no visuals. Suggestion: I don’t know what to call it, but I want to be able to have a mode in the game where I can click on anything and the help system would tell me about them it in lots of detail. I am guessing this is hard, but really, it would be fantastic. Most of the time I just what to know what that thingy is and what it is supposed to do and I need to know it now!

5. Controls: Cool part about the game: tons of ship controls. Bad part about the game: tons of ship controls! oO Once I got online I saw people doing so many things at the same time it baffled me and still does. Forward/back thrusting, side thrusting, boosting, chaff, mines, missiles, rolling, etc. It is hard for me to imagine that people pull off these maneuvers with just a standard kb & mouse as many of the players have told me. Not that I don’t believe them, I am sure it just takes practice, but so many controls are not very intuitive for us noobs ya know? Yeah it is part of the game but… wow… oO. It is not just a steep learning curve, it is more like climbing a slippery cliff face with vicious alligators below while rocks are being thrown at your head. Even after playing with several configurations and suggestions, many thanks to BigNRich and others here, I still can’t find one that allows me to do what I want! I need to be able to aim, not take my fingers off of any of the thrust keys, use mines/chaff, roll and see behind me occasionally. It always seems like I have to sacrifice a critical ability for another. Players tell me they don’t worry about rolling/viewing, but it seems like it would be helpful. I don’t see how you can fly for Rixian Unity and not roll while side thrusting. It is all like a hellish game of finger twister like no other game I have played. Suggestion: Better tutorials I guess? Show me how to make these maneuvers before I get online.

6. Tech: I still have no clue about tech paths. Suggestion: Um… an actual detailed very visual tech tree would be nice. A real tree while in game would be great too. If there is one, I have not found it yet. I see the Tech Tree Explorer program, but it does not explain things and is not very helpful while in game where I need it.

7. Graphics: Just personal observations here. Hey, I am actually really happy this is sorta playable on my little netbook!
a. Ok… I know this game is old, but some things are fugly. It is just the style of everything, very… pixilated, bad color choices, screen resolution changes, just plain dated. I quickly found out about the Cort UI thing and modded my installation almost immediately. The default is horrible and that improved things quite a bit. There are other mods I am going to try asap, especially the transparency stuff.
b. And then there is the 3D in game stuff. Bios and Rixian Unity are the only things that looked good to me so far.
c. The overhead view is awesome though. I have learned so much by just watching people dog fight from that view.
8. Random Related Stuff:
a. You know it was days before I realized that squads and factions were separate things.

b. A list of who is in authority would be helpful.
c. Login name symbols: the ^*@ stuff. Yes I eventually found it, but it something more up front would be nice.
d. How to private chat with people in the game. People helped me in game, but I have yet to find anything in the Wiki about it.
There is so much more, but I think I have covered my biggest problems so far. The facets of this game seem massive right now.

And I need to learn how to use the forum post formating.
Last edited by Moto on Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
MrChaos
Posts: 8352
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:00 am

Post by MrChaos »

Shennanigans
Ssssh
doodeeda
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:17 am
Location: West of the U.S.A

Post by doodeeda »

Hey Moto, awesome post! You private chat by pressing enter, so it brings up the chit thingy. Then, say you wanna private message me. My call sign is doodeeda, so you type in "dood" or w/e and press tab. The you type w/e and when you check the thing on the right, it should say all of my name. It only works when your in the server with them i think. A list of authority, hmm, well, i would say Notjarvis. (Holy crap i use a lot of commas, are my writing skills terrible?) Only because hes the zone leader of Training. Yea, squads are clans, groups, party, whatever you wanna call it. The command view, default key is f3 is what i think your talking about. Yes its extremely helpful while scouting. Alephs are normally in shapes such as triangles or squares. I really don't care about graphics. Allegiance is the only game on my computer right now and its the lack of players I'm worried about. I love the game play however. Basically, i guess EXPANSION is for ints and tts, TACTICAL is for stealth bombers and fighters, SUPREMACY, figbees (FIGHTER/BOMBERS) i think. Just find a control setup is right for you. My deploy probe/mine is z and chaff is x. Fl is helpful, I go into the faction information thing lots of times to just compare faction and which to join. (I don't think it helps at all.) Don't pay the training mission no mind, i didn't. Basically, the training games helped me know this game wasn't a BF2 fps. Also, gave me the word "NAN" lol. F1 has a list of abbreviations. Use it well. Don't command, you don't need to Moto. IF ya don't wanna, if you wanna be some super awesome commander and lead us all to victory then go ahead and practice practice and some current commanders will help u out im sure. Remember, all pros were once joes, like you Moto. Its ok, bout the installation thing. Don't let it tick u off. Its Kay. :cool:
Doo Dee Daa
doodeeda
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:17 am
Location: West of the U.S.A

Post by doodeeda »

MrChaos wrote:QUOTE (MrChaos @ Aug 3 2010, 03:55 AM) Shennanigans
Whaddya mean shennanigans?
Doo Dee Daa
notjarvis
Posts: 4629
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:08 am
Location: Birmingham, UK

Post by notjarvis »

Wow.

Thats a big post.

I'll try and give you information on what's going on in the areas you point out, help you with every section in turn.

Thank-you for your feedback though.
Moto wrote:QUOTE (Moto @ Aug 3 2010, 09:31 AM) 1. Installation:
a. I did not get my initial account confirmation email. Ok, stuff happens and I may be blind, but at the time I could find any clear information in the Wiki on what to when this happens. Sorry if I missed it, but I did look although I may have not known the proper search terms. I did post in the help forum and did receive a quick reply, which was excellent and contributed to me wanting to stick around when I had future troubles. Suggestion: Updating the Wiki and putting a few account problem solutions right on the ASGS login page would be extremely helpful and might cut down on new users having to search for them.
Hmm, there are a variety of issues that cause problems with installation, many of them down to our ageing (and unfixable at the minute) security system. The commonest ones aren't immediately obvious.
We can't edit ASGS as it's owner/writer is mostly AFK and hasn't released the source code. The community is currently writing a replacement security system which is on its way, and which we can edit to make it more helpful for new players.
The wiki could always use people looking at it - (the nature of wikis I'm afraid), and it gradually evolves to give better info.

QUOTE b. Having to make a separate account for the forums. Yeah, nothing new and most games are like this, but it was just another annoying step. Suggestion: Make an option to create a forum account at the same time or even have them linked somehow. It should be quick and easy as possible. The fewer steps for new users the better.
c. Direct X 9 requirement for Windows 7. Suggestion: It would be nice if the installer told me I needed this instead of having to deal with an error message. Grrr
e. It installed icons on all of my user desktops. Another annoying tick on the initial user experience, but it is not even optional or even just one account[/quote]

Linking the game/forum account has been considered in the past, but it may lead to a whole host of issues. I'll forward some of these points to those who generate the installer to see if it's doable.

QUOTE d. Weird administration privilege requirement every time I need to play the game. Really? <snipped>[/quote]
This will be fixed in the next release of allegiance as far as I know. (I actually asked this question recently in the developers forum.

To stop being asked every time you run allegiance - I believe you can Right Click ASGS.exe, select properties, and set it up to always run as administrator (not sure exactly how - Im on XP).

QUOTE 2. In game Training Tutorials:
e. In general, the whole tutorial trainer is horribly minimal at best and misleading at worst. I understand now the need for the Cadet classes, but the fact that I need an actual training class to play a game is… like WTF? You know? I appreciate that players are willing to do this but wow! oO Suggestion: More detailed and extensive in game tutorials before players even get online especially for combat.[/quote]
Just a note. The Training missions are considered a miniscule part of the allegiance experience, which is why don't receive much developer love. The commuity added 1 extra training mission a few years ago, and that took a substantial amount of work. Generally people are recommended to go into game...

QUOTE a. This is huge. The default controls are crap, especially the keyboard layout.[/quote]
Yeah - this is known there was work going on to allow you to select different layouts in game, but as I said above, the default might be left the same so they fit the training missions, but you have a couple of options.

QUOTE b. Does any of us noobs really have any business learning command before becoming a good pilot??? Really???[/quote]
Not really. Some new players think they can :)
The majority of the training missions come from the original release of the game when it was entirely new to everyone - so learning a bit of commanding was necessary.

QUOTE c. I think the thing that was the biggest joke was the “Try to defeat at least one wave, blah blah blah before you can consider yourself ready for real combat” line.[/quote]
The ships in the training missions are "Dumb" no missiles, perfect aim, no strafing.....
It's a bit of a consequence of there being one main game so you can't get into a less hostile environment easily.


QUOTE d. One whole training mission just on the most common abbreviations would have been a god send. I am talking about Ints, Figs, FBees, Nans (covered at least), Prox, Galv etc. Once online, I had no freaking clue what the hell everyone was talking about because it was all short hand. Hell, I am still lost. I don’t think you guys realize just how much of a language barrier there is here. Suggestion: I know there are tons, but at least cover the most important ones.[/quote]
Interesting idea. Would need some thought
I assume you've seen this page?

QUOTE 3. Wiki (Tech and Learning):
a. To be honest, without this and people constantly being helpful, I probably would have quit last week. Suggestion: Make its existence even more in your face for us noobs. I am not kidding here; make it a big ass animated button/link/ad whatever on top of every page. Our biggest problem is that we don’t know what we don’t know, ya know? Ooo, maybe a random tip on top of every page?[/quote]
Got it. Advertise the wiki stuff better. Thanks for the tips (good ideas by the way).

QUOTE b. I am almost thinking that it should be a required read before even getting into an online game, but that might be too much… too… overwhelming. I swear, I have a cycle:
i. Play a game.
ii. I try to restrict myself to a few questions per game and most of the time people are very helpful.
iii. Consult Wiki, repeat. To be honest, this is not exactly fun.[/indent][/quote]
Yeah - we've (well - cashto wrote it) tried to give a 1 page overview of how to make yourself useful. But there is a lot of things that need fleshing out adding for new players I think.

QUOTE c. It is still missing tons of stuff. I had searches didn’t yield any answers. Most of the time I don’t know what to actually search for… there is so much terminology to learn. Do you guys see a search history in the Wiki?[/quote]
Not entirely sure what you mean here. sorry - that might be just me.

QUOTE d. It is probably my lack of knowledge but it does not seem that well organized. Yeah, this is probably just me.[/quote]
Maybe, maybe not. If there are things you are struggling to find. Feel free to point them out.

Have you seen this page for linking training together by the way?



QUOTE 4. In Game Help: F1 Help is kinda useless… a mini Wiki is not what I need and the window is way too small and there are no visuals. Suggestion: I don’t know what to call it, but I want to be able to have a mode in the game where I can click on anything and the help system would tell me about them it in lots of detail. I am guessing this is hard, but really, it would be fantastic. Most of the time I just what to know what that thingy is and what it is supposed to do and I need to know it now![/quote]
A lot of work went into updating that a couple of years ago, but it's not really a primary source of info. TO be honest that sounds like a ton of work (again - good idea though).

QUOTE 6. Tech: I still have no clue about tech paths. Suggestion: Um… an actual detailed very visual tech tree would be nice. A real tree while in game would be great too. If there is one, I have not found it yet. I see the Tech Tree Explorer program, but it does not explain things and is not very helpful while in game where I need it.[/quote]
I assume you've seen this page?
One thing you can do in game to learn a bit about techpaths is to go into F4 while in game. You can see what your commander is researching etc.
If you check the "Show all" button at the bottom of the page you can see what you need to research to get various bits of euquipment and ships. Hope this helps a bit.

QUOTE 7. Graphics: Just personal observations here. Hey, I am actually really happy this is sorta playable on my little netbook!
a. Ok… I know this game is old, but some things are fugly. It is just the style of everything, very… pixilated, bad color choices, screen resolution changes, just plain dated. I quickly found out about the Cort UI thing and modded my installation almost immediately. The default is horrible and that improved things quite a bit. There are other mods I am going to try asap, especially the transparency stuff.
b. And then there is the 3D in game stuff. Bios and Rixian Unity are the only things that looked good to me so far.
c. The overhead view is awesome though. I have learned so much by just watching people dog fight from that view.[/quote]
You can upgrade your graphics you know?
You can download new upgrades from the site Mesial hosts
Or you can test out Orions new tool Modulus -Although it's in Beta, so heed the warnings.

There is work on making some graphical available in the installer (I think), but we still want Alleg. when newly installed to run on Aging PCs for the most part.

QUOTE 8. Random Related Stuff:

a. You know it was days before I realized that squads and factions were separate things.[/quote]
really? Not sure how we fix that hmmm

QUOTE b. A list of who is in authority would be helpful.[/quote]
The admins are listed on the wiki., but maybe that should be more prominent.

QUOTE c. Login name symbols: the ^*@ stuff. Yes I eventually found it, but it something more up front would be nice.[/quote]

QUOTE d. How to chat with people in the game. People helped me in game, but I have yet to find anything in the Wiki about it.[/quote]
Good point! Perhaps we should add a "how to PM people in-game" page to the wiki Cadet I lessons. (Mind you I've just noticed Cashto's quick learner page has a section on it).

QUOTE And I need to learn how to use the forum post formating.[/quote]

This forum uses BBCodefor formatting. The buttons at the top of your post box will autoatically insert it for many things.

Again - thanks for your feedback - and I hope I've answered some of your questions.

One thing I would urge you to do is sign up for the allegiance flight school (Click here to find the form). You get a forum where we encourage you to ask questions about anything you have a problem with, I think there a re a few suggested keymaps in there too (if there isn't you can always ask and about 4 instructors will jump in with theirs). Theres no pressure, just some additional links to learn from, and a forum specifically for people like you.
Last edited by notjarvis on Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
doodeeda
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:17 am
Location: West of the U.S.A

Post by doodeeda »

QUOTE
d. How to chat with people in the game. People helped me in game, but I have yet to find anything in the Wiki about it.

Hmm interesting point! Perhaps we should add a "how to chat" page to the wiki. (Or if there is one I ain't found it either).



Oh, my. Notjarvis i bet you had some fun writing THAT. he meant how to private chat i think, i explained it.
edit-
It just sounds sarcastic to me..sigh
Last edited by doodeeda on Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Doo Dee Daa
notjarvis
Posts: 4629
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Post by notjarvis »

doodeeda wrote:QUOTE (doodeeda @ Aug 3 2010, 10:51 AM) QUOTE
d. How to chat with people in the game. People helped me in game, but I have yet to find anything in the Wiki about it.

Hmm interesting point! Perhaps we should add a "how to chat" page to the wiki. (Or if there is one I ain't found it either).



Oh, my. Notjarvis i bet you had some fun writing THAT. he meant how to private chat i think, i explained it.
?

I knew exactly what he meant.

And I was suggesting we add details of how to in-game PM to the CDT I lessons. I was thinking of doing that this lunchtime to be honest...
doodeeda
Posts: 47
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Location: West of the U.S.A

Post by doodeeda »

it just sounded sarcastic lol..today we will teach you how to chat folks xD please press enter on your keyboard, and type the word "hi"
Last edited by doodeeda on Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Doo Dee Daa
doodeeda
Posts: 47
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 2:17 am
Location: West of the U.S.A

Post by doodeeda »

and why, oh why, is there nobody on alleg. NOT ONE SERVER, OR PERSON OHH THE HORROR
Doo Dee Daa
notjarvis
Posts: 4629
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:08 am
Location: Birmingham, UK

Post by notjarvis »

Understood. I've edited to make it less sarcastic. Tone in forum posts is difficult to estimate sometimes.


Nothing in my big post is sarcastic I think.
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