We should not let...

WhiskeyGhost · Post by **WhiskeyGhost** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:02 pm

If i had to sum this thread up, it's a social problem not a technical problem, and while technical fixes may alleviate pressure, it doesn't change the social aspect of things.

Shorter games as an option would be nice, but would only relieve some pressure caused by the extended lengths of some games, though to be honest (and i've said this before), if you can't end a game after an hour or so, nobody deserves to win due to a lack of effort somewhere.

As it stands, anyone with some common sense can notice that people tend to gravitate towards groups, usually consisting of their own friends or who is more likely to win (based on faction, settings, commanders, and what they know of the players on the teams). This is the core issue, because when you have good players wanting to join the winning team because they don't want to take on a challenge (or worse, wait for an ignorant voob or a newbie to join to make an available slot on the winning side), and this can easily determine the outcome of a game with less then 40 people involved.

I'm not saying there's a fix for it, and i'm not saying people should go against what makes them have fun personally, but they should be aware that it is this kind of behavior that tends to drive away new blood very quickly, both by making them feel useless to the team and on top of that, making them feel responsible for it as well. I don't know about you guys, but this is precisely how i felt when i first took up Alleg some odd 8 years ago for the very first (and short) time, and still felt it every time i came back.

raumvogel · Post by **raumvogel** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:23 pm

Well,hopefully the newbs will stay for the chat at least. you have to admit that our chat session in between game is far better that IRC.
Also, the learning curve is part of the challenge. Wait,that's right,the younger generation doesn't want a challenge. They want a game that makes them thinkthat they have accomplished something. That's why I've always been for promoting this game to adults.

Jjb273 · Post by **Jjb273** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:49 pm

raumvogel wrote:QUOTE (raumvogel @ Jul 23 2010, 10:23 PM) (...)
Also, the learning curve is part of the challenge. Wait,that's right,the younger generation doesn't want a challenge. They want a game that makes them thinkthat they have accomplished something. That's why I've always been for promoting this game to adults.

I agree with your first statement, the problem is: what is the percantage of adults in the gaming scene?
That's just it, if you want the game as it is, and everybody wants the game as complex as it is, for a number of reasons lesser and lesser persons will flow because they just dont want what WE want. And indipendently from the consistance of the flux, we can just say in general that we can forget big numbers.

OR we can noobtize the game and make it appealing to a lot of new players, but it wouldn't be the same game.

The only solution i see is a happy medium cleverly summed up by wishkey ghost before you: there are some elements that prevent the masses from playing the game, but they are KEY aspects of the game so we just have to take them for uneliminable... and there are some other elements, more on the social side.. THOSE we can at least try to improve.

elites are made for the few that experience the delight of a superior understanding, but being in the elite doesn't give you right to be elitist. I think this sums it up.

EdDaalleg · Post by **EdDaalleg** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:51 pm

On the integrated voice thing I believe mumble has some features where your channel and permissions can be controlled by an outside program. I am not certain I read their description correctly but it seemed like it would be entirely possible to have allegiance automatically assign you to the correct mumble channel based on your allegiance team and deny you entrance to the enemy team's channel. I believe it would also be able to give permissions to @allegs and commanders to silence problem people.

It's not truly integrated but if I read it correctly it is much more feasible than actually trying to make integrated voice from scratch.

OTDT_Hunter · Post by **OTDT_Hunter** » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:34 pm

Is it me or does this just seem like we are all having these discussions and all this is going to end up geting nowhere?

Or am I just missing out on the messages happening somewhere else that is geting this ball rolling on geting SOMETHING done?

Jimen · Post by **Jimen** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:19 am

Ding ding ding ding ding! Basically EVERY idea to improve Allegiance has been brought up at some point, discussed for fifteen pages, and then promptly forgotten about and abandoned forever!

Elzam_ · Post by **Elzam_** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:22 am

Jimen wrote:QUOTE (Jimen @ Jul 23 2010, 08:19 PM) Ding ding ding ding ding! Basically EVERY idea to improve Allegiance has been brought up at some point, discussed for fifteen pages, and then promptly forgotten about and abandoned forever!

Actually, they're working on code to let newbies jump right in quicker. The only thing is it doesn't change time between games, and I don't think anything will change that. As much as I hate to say it, we really gotta get the newbie servers running again. I think that'll be the best way to start getting newbies to stay.

OTDT_Hunter · Post by **OTDT_Hunter** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:51 am

What about the rest of the ideas? Couldn't we do a poll or something for the dev team? I may not agree with all of the ideas but I think they should all be looked at by the dev team (or whoever would be the right people to look it over). I think we could atleast use some of those ideas in Beta and such. Really test those ideas out in game.

I know allegiance is not going to be a big game because it is not everones cup of tea to play and stick around. I do think we could and SHOULD be doing alot better at geting more people and keeping them. For those people that are already doing those things I tip my hat off to you, I mean no disrespect to you.

Jimen · Post by **Jimen** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:00 am

Elzam V. Branstein wrote:QUOTE (Elzam V. Branstein @ Jul 23 2010, 08:22 PM) Actually, they're working on code to let newbies jump right in quicker. The only thing is it doesn't change time between games, and I don't think anything will change that. As much as I hate to say it, we really gotta get the newbie servers running again. I think that'll be the best way to start getting newbies to stay.

No, "they" are working on code to make autobalance ignore newbies. Which is great save for two things: a) autobalance is rarely on, and b) autoaccept is rarely on. Balancing by AS isn't going to cause commanders to start manually accepting newbies, so once again it goes back to a social problem.

Moreover, there is no "they" here. None. Nada. The change you mention is being done exclusively by ONE person, who's coded like half a dozen patches already. I note for the record that you and he were in the same Cadet class, yet he's accomplished all this for the community and you've done jack @#(! except sit in here and talk about stuff you know nothing about. Newbie servers? Really? How would you know? They were dead when you joined, so you had to learn by jumping in and playing just like all the rest.

Makida · Post by **Makida** » Sat Jul 24, 2010 2:08 am

Yeah Elzam how dare you not... program patches, you useless person who is useless! You didn't accomplish anything, how dare you post in our forums just because you're someone who plays and cares about this game and took the time to learn it! Begone, you little person not fit to kiss Jimen's feet!

(/sarcasm)

Newbie servers were very much alive when I first joined and newbies loved 'em. No-one uses them now --> is this a reason to give up on them, or the consequence of the servers being treated as useless and unimportant before, and, in part, the lowered rank restrictions? Try to *get* people to use them more, instead of just saying "oh, no-one uses them now, so let's give up on them." Our player pop wasn't in the multiple thousands last time they *were* actively being used, so our lower pop now isn't necessarily an ironclad reason why they can't recover to some extent at least. They may not instantly go back to being as alive as they were years before, but with a bit of encouragement they might become less... dead, and that might help our population grow. Happy cycles result!

IIRC, the reason the noob servers were given so little consideration is because the emphasis was placed on teaching new players as quickly as possible. The fear that they would pick up "bad habits" on the newbie servers out-weighted any consideration that, well, they might actually *have fun* there. Newbies were actively *discouraged* from using those servers for anything other than setting up their controls and the like.

This very philosophy needs to change. To repeat myself, the emphasis should be on letting newbies have fun, and thus encouraging them to stay for long enough to get them to want to learn at their own pace -- rather than on pressuring them to get good, fast. Stop being so scared of them picking up "bad habits" and be more scared of them getting overwhelmed or bored and leaving before they ever get a chance to realise this game is *worth* learning.