Discussion of Bios changes

Elzam_ · Post by **Elzam_** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:50 pm

If your Miner O ain't Kamikaze-ing then you're doing it wrong. Cowards always run to save their KB and the miner lives.

Icky · Post by **Icky** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:54 pm

Oh good, Elzam is sharing his opinion too!

Elzam, it is much easier to get a PUG team on miner offense if there is a close base. If they have to boost 3 sectors, it's easier if they are bios since they don't need to worry about a 4.5 minute pod ride home.

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:56 pm

_SRM_Nuke wrote:QUOTE (_SRM_Nuke @ Jun 22 2010, 08:36 PM) How would removing ripping pods stop this turtling you so hate?

People consider Bios one of the best factions to turtle with, hardly without merit but what allows Bios to so effectively turtle where another faction would get crushed? Bios can turtle yet still attack almost simultaneously because they don't have to worry about a walk home no matter how suicidal they are in attacking, a single bios player can tie up other players to defend and then once podded can rip back home and help with defence or just attack all over again.

It's no secret that when a team has galvs or bombers that main bios targets are the home rips regardless of whatever techpath Bios are.

juckto · Post by **juckto** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:57 pm

I have felt for a while that increasing bios pod rip time and/or decreasing their top speed would be nice. It gets annoying podding a pilot and having them right back in your face 30s later.

The short rip time + low sig pods can also make it difficult to get rid of high kb bios pilots.

Jimen · Post by **Jimen** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:58 pm

girlyboy wrote:QUOTE (girlyboy @ Jun 22 2010, 01:00 PM) Like I said in the edit to my previous post -- the way to counter Bios ripping pods when they're turtling is to take out their home rip. Even when they're successfully defending their home tech, this should still be possible, especially since it's a pretty fragile base (90% shield/hull). And if their economy gets nerfed, replacing the rip will be even more of a pain for them. There you go, problem solved.

Ah, yes, so ripping pods are easy to deal with, because all you have to do is trap them in their home and then execute the "bomb the home-rip of a sup team that has proxing figs and is turtling in one sector" plan. Are you insane?

notjarvis wrote:QUOTE (notjarvis @ Jun 22 2010, 02:35 PM) It's the perfect solution if it were 40 minutes or so. If your team can't advance to advanced tech and be in their home in 40 minutes or so on a normal sized map, you really don't deserve to win.
...
It's hard to balance but makes up some of the unique flavour for that faction. Other things that are equally hard to balance include IC Ungalvable bases and RPs, Rix 6 second research times and SR, Belters tech keeping/picking, and Giga's special mines. Are you suggesting we remove all those too? Cos they re all hard to balance.

Have you ever heard a comm say "we have nothing to defend, so I want to see the entire team on their miners"? It's not uncommon to see stalemates of that sort, where wiping out all the foe's miners leads to increased pressure on your miners. Now, take that, add ripping pods, and multiply by Bios. If NEITHER side can mine, guess which one wins (hint: it's the one with 1.0 paydays and 0.5 cost). This is what spidey is hinting at, btw.

Giga specmines are weak pansy things that are never any threat at all to anyone, and the Rix stuff is pretty insignificant, but the CC forum kicks up a fresh round of whines about Belters keeping tech every time it changes the course of a game (so, about once every six months), and IC's perks are pretty difficult to balance as well.

_SRM_Nuke · Post by **_SRM_Nuke** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:07 pm

HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Jun 22 2010, 03:56 PM) People consider Bios one of the best factions to turtle with, hardly without merit but what allows Bios to so effectively turtle where another faction would get crushed? Bios can turtle yet still attack almost simultaneously because they don't have to worry about a walk home no matter how suicidal they are in attacking, a single bios player can tie up other players to defend and then once podded can rip back home and help with defence or just attack all over again.

It's no secret that when a team has galvs or bombers that main bios targets are the home rips regardless of whatever techpath Bios are.

The reason Bios can turtle is because they don't need miners. Not because they can be suicidal on miner O. Elzam is right about that (shocking I must admit). When is the last time you went on miner O and didn't suicide? Every single vet who goes on miner offense and dies pod kills themselves on prox or the miner, no matter the faction. Its probably true that Bios ripping pods allow you to save your kb as Juckto pointed out, but you get home fast from miner O no matter the faction (with obvious exceptions for when a dreg miner runs away from your pod or something similar). If anything, rescue probes for IC/Belt/TF help far more than ripping pods.

FIZ · Post by **FIZ** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:15 pm

You know, if we put this much attention to Microsoft for 3 days or 4, we could start working on Allegiance 3.0

theTroy · Post by **theTroy** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:31 pm

spideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ Jun 22 2010, 12:27 PM) So yesterday there was a bios vs tf game (exp vs exp). About 15 minutes in bios had killed all of TF's miners and TF had killed all of Bios' miners. If paydays are halved would this have prevented TF from resigning 15 minutes in? If not then perhaps we have not hit upon the root of the problem yet.

Small paydays (.5 .25) will result in TF paydaying their tech faster, getting new miner out faster (about 2-4x faster) and having the luxury of spending their whole team defending it with superior tech until bios gets their new miner out.

Slow mining speed (.5) will result in TF having more than enough time to set up a full-team miner rush (while their miner already got 2-3 loads in) on an already mining miner and kill it with superior tech (unless bios mined freely early in game).

Higher yeild (1.1-1.2) will be a good cashback to the bios team for defending their miner for that long. (not sure how this will exactly affect opening, but considering slower mining it will slow bios down a fair bit in the opening too, even with higher yeild)

Additionally this weakens sup/tac techpath (enh miners only) and perks exp (advminers easier to defend).

By the time bios would payday all of their pretty tech, TF is supposed to have 4 garrison advcons with carriers waiting on each side of the aleph.

Edit : and finally it will make mining speed ga sensible. (perking bios exp further)

lexaal · Post by **lexaal** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:32 pm

Couldn't find better words than bacon.

Jimen · Post by **Jimen** » Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:42 pm

lexaal wrote:QUOTE (lexaal @ Jun 22 2010, 05:32 PM) Couldn't find better words than bacon.

I think Crono's words in that thread are more appropriate for CC than Bacon's idiocy will ever be. Just take one look at old-timey TF, Dreg, and Nix, and then ask yourselves again if "different" is always "good". If someone makes a good and well-reasoned argument for removing something, you don't just get to wave that off with "but it's DIFFERENT". Why not actually try and JUSTIFY retaining this stuff, instead of whining that we should keep stuff no matter what and complaining that "if it's unbalanced then the CC team just isn't trying hard enough".

SO SHUT UP AND RETURN TO THE WORLD OF $#@!ING BALANCING BIOS LIKE THIS THREAD IS ABOUT INSTEAD OF GOING ON CONSTANT DERAILS ABOUT THE SAME WHINY @#(! YOU GUYS BRING UP IN EVERY $#@!ING THREAD ABOUT EVERY $#@!ING SHIP OR FACTION. Seriously, focus and think before posting in the $#@!ing CC forum.