Meeting

[MrChaos]

By all means advertise it more but

* rings the clue bell*

Why you have really bad turn out for beta testing.

In order for Beta testing to be a success you are going to have to make the install and uninstall "pants on the head easy". Not "oh just edit this, then do that, then this, and if that doesnt work, do this, three of the four of these and just do everything backwards except blah blah blah". It has to be uber user friendly and it doesn't matter bit if you think its simple your devs not end users.

You may want to think about for 2 hours American and 2 hours Euro prime time on such and such day the only choice is beta. Be wise, even handed, and make it an occasion rather then some chore for them that may break their regular Allegiance. I mean if I have to literally beg people to run a trace route in real time and still only get about 1 in 3 to do it, what chance does doing things the current why with more advertising have.... history and human nature back me up

[TheBored]

QUOTE (madpeople @ Mar 23 2010, 05:39 AM) Can I suggest changing it to only "Suggestions", that way we stop trac being spammed by noobs with "supposing we could fly miners...", also lets us use the software designed for discussions to discuss/hash out the details of the request like in this thread before submitting it to trac - don't want devs implementing the first version of the idea only for someone else to not line it and change it half way through.

QUOTE (fuzzylunkin1 @ Mar 23 2010, 11:57 AM) That's pretty much what this part of the forum would be for.

I originally thought about this, assuming that closing CB&S would be the solution. I recognize that we need to use the forum as a filter though... so that puts us in an odd situation. I'm thinking the best solution would be leaving CB&S, letting the public post away in that forum. When a new topic is started, others would come in and confirm/approve the bug or suggestion. If it passes a minimal level of scrutiny, someone would add it to Trac. I mainly want this to prevent stupid suggestions or incorrect bugs from making it to Trac. I know JoeSchmoe wants to get rid of the commander position, but that ain't gonna happen

If we got rid of CB&S, we would effectively revert this forum into CB&S. Does that really accomplish anything? I'd like to keep this forum as a catch-all for anything that doesn't belong in the other forums.

Let me know if that sounds right.

TB

[madpeople]

Which brings us back to where we are now, except for the addition of "update trac with stuff".

I guess we should be training a team of monkeys / getting sensible people to update trac with what is decided upon in threads. Perhaps like the CC team /docs zone has lots of moderators , but perhaps not use so many official positions for it, just encourage experienced forum whores posters to update trac, and not to be afraid about puting stuf up on it - a wiki "be bold" style approach?

[fuzzylunkin1]

QUOTE (madpeople @ Mar 23 2010, 04:41 PM) I guess we should be training a team of monkeys / getting sensible people to update trac with what is decided upon in threads. Perhaps like the CC team /docs zone has lots of moderators , but perhaps not use so many official positions for it, just encourage experienced forum whores posters to update trac, and not to be afraid about puting stuf up on it - a wiki "be bold" style approach?

I could probably help with that. I did put most of the current tickets into Trac . . . .

[TheBored]

QUOTE (madpeople @ Mar 23 2010, 05:41 PM) Which brings us back to where we are now, except for the addition of "update trac with stuff".

I guess we should be training a team of monkeys / getting sensible people to update trac with what is decided upon in threads. Perhaps like the CC team /docs zone has lots of moderators , but perhaps not use so many official positions for it, just encourage experienced forum whores posters to update trac, and not to be afraid about puting stuf up on it - a wiki "be bold" style approach?

Possibly, closing CB&S was just an idea. I'll let it float a bit before killing it off.

And yes, the forum whores should be the ones updating Trac Devs would be ideal, but I think forum whores greatly outnumber the devs.

TB

[madpeople]

QUOTE (madpeople @ Mar 23 2010, 09:39 AM) Will comment later

Few more comments:
The small number of people who hold the keys to the update systems is a bottleneck, as are files that are asgs locked that shouldn't be (often because we use asgs to update them by misusing the asgs file protect functionality, replacinghte invalid (old) file with the valid (new) version, and then leaving the files protected because "people who haven't played in a few yars but still have allegiance installed won't get the update if we unprotect them").

We have a small number of people holding the keys for security. - We want to stop people uploading stuff willy nilly and sending out broken files. That seems sensible.

The current process is:
A file gets made, it gets tested, it gets given to someone with the keys to the AU along with an assurance that it has been tested, it gets put on the AU.

Now, we've had people go through that process (looking at the CC team here), where a broken file gets put on the AU, people complain on the forums that the core is broken, very quickly the fix is made, but the gate keeper to the AU is asleep, so drama ensues for a day while the broken core is out in the wild unfixed because noone can distribute the fixed version.
The gate keeper of the AU/updater process doesn't test the file them selves, they simply ask if the file has been tested, then put it up if it seems like a reasnoble request. So in the cases where the gate keeper is almost certainly going to allow the file on the updater (CC updates, very active trust worthy core devs [like when noir was running his servers & doing DN], FAZ team beta deployments), all the gate keeper serves to do is slow down the deployment process, and make a bad situation worse when a broken file gets pushed because they trusted the "I tested it well" (which they may well have done - bugs frequently get throigh testing, bad files will get pushed regardless of the gate keeper's presence)

Now, I've had some ideas about a better update system - which is different to the suggestion of letting more responsible parties have the ability to push updates discussed above - that are being discussed in another thread

[BetaTester]

I like the idea of removing the cool kids club...

Call me when that happens.. or if I get in...

[Bard]

QUOTE (BetaTester @ Apr 21 2010, 12:15 PM) I like the idea of removing the cool kids club...

Call me when that happens.. or if I get in...

Which one, the FA.o PK forum?

ROFL

Nothing goes on in there. It's just a forum some of us hang in to avoid the likes of slap/girlyboy.

Unless something truly interesting happens in Allegiance, it's not uncommon for that forum to go a week to 10 days without a single post.

[Orion]

I don't think he was referring to that cool kid's club, but I can be wrong.