Allegiance as private club

[zombywoof]

QUOTE (SaiSoma @ Jan 17 2010, 02:31 PM) I have stated in the past that our means to greater retention is to enforce a newbie server policy that allows @HELP to play on the newb servers only. If you have on your @HELP tag, you can ONLY join the newb servers, period. Grow @HELP so it almost always has someone on. Make the newb servers more active. Yes, it's hard without community as small as it is. That was the same answer I got 3 years ago when we were still up around 800 actives. Now we're much smaller. While I don't believe it's time to lock <5 out of the main game, we need to make the newbie servers more active. Make sure they get an ASGS message the first time they login that @HELP is around on the newbie servers and that they are ENCOURAGED to join those servers.

No.

[Jimen]

Honestly, the one thing I see newbies having the biggest problem with is the typically long delay between games, rather than any element of actual gameplay. It's incredible how many 0s and 1s I've seen who went straight to main without even checking out training or the newb servers, get into their first game and have a decent amount of fun flying around with no idea what they're doing...but then the game ends and after about two minutes of trying madly to get back into the game, yelling at people to shut up and let them in already, or whining about WHY HASN'T THE GAME STARTED YET, they suddenly go bat@#(! insane and have a big public meltdown. That's the number one most visible cause of newb losses IMO: people who just aren't patient enough for Alleg and flip out while everyone's either peeing or talking nonsense on NOAT. I remember one particularly humorous one who started yelling about how he wouldn't have had to wait half as long in COD4 and how Allegiance is terrible and he'd rather play games that he'd actually paid for, and then flipped out how he'd go on the internet and find a bunch of hacks and ruin the game for everyone and we'd pay, oh how we'd pay. Don't know how that ended because that was about the point that people stopped trying to get him to calm down and couldn't restrain themselves anymore, and I dropped for a while because I figured it probably wouldn't be a good idea to let out all the abuse I was holding back.

EDIT: SaiSoma, maybe this is a surprise, but @HELPs aren't the only people who can advise newbs! I'm a busy scout whore and often flying solo, but if I happen to see a newb and I'm not eyed, I'll gladly help him out with things like how to use F3 view and where to look for alephs, or send him orders to where he should be flying.

[Sushi]

QUOTE (SaiSoma @ Jan 17 2010, 06:31 PM) As I see it, the problem with newbies is that they get into a high tension game and are not given any direction or help. Most games have "skill levels" that prevent a newb from coming up against a weed. That this is possible in Alleg is one of its greatest strengths and weaknesses.

I am newbie friendly, but when I am commanding a game (small or large) I don't have time to spend telling new guys what to do. What happens to them? They fly around aimlessly and get bored or they get killed repeatedly because they are in a lt int when we have adv figs....

Sai is right on about the problem. I'm not totally convinced that the @Help/newbie server thing is the solution, though... but I don't have any better ideas, besides having vet players (especially the commander) do more newbie hand-holding.

[MrChaos]

QUOTE (Sushi @ Jan 17 2010, 07:38 PM) Sai is right on about the problem. I'm not totally convinced that the @Help/newbie server thing is the solution, though... but I don't have any better ideas, besides having vet players (especially the commander) do more newbie hand-holding.

It works if you remember you're there to teach not play and let them try to do things like dogfight in bomber vs a scout, and THEN correct them. Simple things like the bomber is in this sector transfer to that base and go kill it. They get it, but it helps to be coached and within a game you can see them doing it themselves. Fun is the operative word, without it they aint sticking around.



Scabies the gift that just keeps giving! Pass it on Clay

[Camaro]

@Help/Newbie server is the best way from a logistical standpoint to help. BUT, it is painfully boring. Even i require someone to banter with while NOAT whoring.

[SaiSoma]

QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jan 17 2010, 07:02 PM) No.

I expect better from you P1. Try discussing this rather than dictating from your high horse, by the way, is not high enough for one word answers.

[SaiSoma]

QUOTE (Jimen @ Jan 17 2010, 07:02 PM) Honestly, the one thing I see newbies having the biggest problem with is the typically long delay between games, rather than any element of actual gameplay. It's incredible how many 0s and 1s I've seen who went straight to main without even checking out training or the newb servers, get into their first game and have a decent amount of fun flying around with no idea what they're doing...but then the game ends and after about two minutes of trying madly to get back into the game, yelling at people to shut up and let them in already, or whining about WHY HASN'T THE GAME STARTED YET, they suddenly go bat@#(! insane and have a big public meltdown. That's the number one most visible cause of newb losses IMO: people who just aren't patient enough for Alleg and flip out while everyone's either peeing or talking nonsense on NOAT. I remember one particularly humorous one who started yelling about how he wouldn't have had to wait half as long in COD4 and how Allegiance is terrible and he'd rather play games that he'd actually paid for, and then flipped out how he'd go on the internet and find a bunch of hacks and ruin the game for everyone and we'd pay, oh how we'd pay. Don't know how that ended because that was about the point that people stopped trying to get him to calm down and couldn't restrain themselves anymore, and I dropped for a while because I figured it probably wouldn't be a good idea to let out all the abuse I was holding back.

EDIT: SaiSoma, maybe this is a surprise, but @HELPs aren't the only people who can advise newbs! I'm a busy scout whore and often flying solo, but if I happen to see a newb and I'm not eyed, I'll gladly help him out with things like how to use F3 view and where to look for alephs, or send him orders to where he should be flying.

that's not a surprise, but perhaps I misunderstand what the pupose of @help is? I saw a gAme with 6 newbs on the newb srvr this afternooon. Insaw two @helps NOT on the newb srvr and no newbs in the main game. Anything wrong with this picture?

[SaiSoma]

Do we agree that the problem is in the introduction to the game? A lack of proper "leveling" for new players?

If so, let's brainstorm ideas on how to introduce some semblance of this into the game w/o changing the game at the core

[Makida]

I think SaiSoma is basically correct, though letting people wearing their @Help tag only onto the newbie server is going too far. Still, @Helps should definitely not only be allowed, but encouraged to be on the newbie server when newbies are playing, I think... But restricting them there is too much. Sure, they can always just take the tag off, but it's still too much of a heavy-handed restriction, and besides, we do need @Helps in main games as well.

Ah, p1, I don't think you can just say "no" and then rely on the weight of your authority to deliver the rest of the message for you, quite yet.

[zombywoof]

I shouldn't have to expand Sai. You and I have talked about this for a looong time and you should know by now why I hate the idea of forcing people to ONLY play on certain servers.

But if you want me to expand:

Allegiance is a game, where people come to play not be herded around like cattle. Your idea for forcing newbies to only play on the newbie server was dumb and your idea for forcing @HELP to play on the newbie server is dumb.

You force people to sit on the newbie server, people won't log in with their @HELP because, as camaro said, it's boring. Saying, "Congrats, you volunteered to help, which means you don't get to play!" is backwards; it's punishing people for volunteering their time. This isn't a bloody MMORPG where we can have a 'newbie' area and it's clear when you're ready to move on, it's an online game where everyone moves forward at a different pace; a pace that's (by the way) not going to be based on rank for at least a while because Newbie server games are never big enough to affect rank, which means we can't force newbies onto the newbie server (something we SHOULD NOT DO anyways), which means that some will invariably slip through the cracks and end up in the main game where they won't see any @HELP.

Now an ASGS message broadcast to all newcomers with basic community information like "People with @Alleg are the moderators, people with @Help are here to help you get acquainted with controls and answer any questions you have" would be a good idea. But shoving people onto this server or that is, was, and will always be a bad idea.