What do you all think of mine packs?
In my experience, and from what I've seen, they're incredibly difficult to use effectively. They have to be timed perfectly or else the enemy ship will barely even take half the damage it was intended to deal.
The radius (75) is so small that you can very easily avoid them.
I've seen interceptors plow right through a mine pack and survive to kill who dropped it even though they have more damage than prox3, they just cover so little of an area, and have such a short lifespan, that they really don't pose much of a threat, unless deployed on an aleph (in which case you hold up for 5 seconds before you go and it'll be gone...)
The only thing they have going for them is the smaller cargo usage, so a std scout can drop two.
ICE doesn't seem to show any sort of arming time variable for mines, unless that's what "Load Time" is.
All mines have a 4s activation time.
Prox1/Minepack1
Endurance: 2000/1400 (Maximum amount of damage)
Duration: 15/5 (How long it lasts)
Damage: 400/700 (Used in damage calculation along with ship speed, etc.)
Radius: 100/75 (Distance from center of field to edge. Double it for the diameter.)
Mass: 3/3
EDIT: Is spidey the only one that's supposed to create poll topics here in the cc forum? I didn't see anything saying not to.
Mine Packs
Just CC staff. Its right in the sticky:Weylin wrote:QUOTE (Weylin @ Jul 19 2009, 12:57 AM) EDIT: Is spidey the only one that's supposed to create poll topics here in the cc forum? I didn't see anything saying not to.
IMO, minepacks could stand to get more duration. They're supposed to be equivalent to Hvy plas, but Hvy plas is much more useful for two reasons: Longer duration and bigger radius. On the other hand a minepack will generally do more damage and can't be shot down.spideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ Apr 28 2009, 11:29 AM) Please do not run polls in the CC forums. Polls are a tool used by the CC development team. Any unofficial polls will be removed
Hvy plas lasts for 7 seconds, Minepacks for 5. Both have a 4s activation time. I would say perk MP so its lasts 7s too. I wouldn't change anything else.
The radius is fine on the MP because of the damage it does. For reference, prox is only 25m larger than minepack and it does fine.
Last edited by Xeretov on Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
Minepacks are plenty useful. Yes, it's really hard to use them the way you would prox, but several fighters dropping mp 300-500m in front of a bomb run can create a considerable hazard.
Hvy plas is awesome, but it and the fourth gun have to combine to make up for TF's lack of missiles, which I suppose helps explain why it does sniper/missile type damage.
I suppose, like anything, it could be tweaked, but I don't see a definite need.
Mp1 should probably be compared to prox2 rather than prox1, because they are the same tech level. That said, I'm entirely okay with prox1 being a better choice, generally, than minepack1. I occasionally try using minepack2 in my scout if it's late game and prox1 just isn't doing much damage, but I'm not sure whether it's actually better in that situation.
I have yet to figure out exactly how minefields do damage. It seems to be rather complicated.
Hvy plas is awesome, but it and the fourth gun have to combine to make up for TF's lack of missiles, which I suppose helps explain why it does sniper/missile type damage.
I suppose, like anything, it could be tweaked, but I don't see a definite need.
Mp1 should probably be compared to prox2 rather than prox1, because they are the same tech level. That said, I'm entirely okay with prox1 being a better choice, generally, than minepack1. I occasionally try using minepack2 in my scout if it's late game and prox1 just isn't doing much damage, but I'm not sure whether it's actually better in that situation.
I have yet to figure out exactly how minefields do damage. It seems to be rather complicated.
Any job worth doing with a laser is worth doing with many, many lasers. -Khrima
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
Beyond a shadow of a doubt if you don't watch them like a hawk they will stack their collective balls off - MrChaos on Alleg players
I would like to see mine packs have less mass. It doesn't make sense to me that something that has a lot less volume and less duration has the same mass.
Last edited by juckto on Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
Usually though, "skill" is used to covertly mean "match the game exactly to my level of competence." Anyone who is at all worse than me should fail utterly (and humorously!) and anyone better is clearly too caught up in the game and their opinions shouldn't count.
After some testing, it seems all "mines" (Meaning in CC: Prox, MP, Caltrops) have a 4s activation time, however their "duration" takes effect after a 3s window. Meaning minepacks last 8s right now rather than the 5 I thought they did. I still say they could use another second or two though. As a further note, because plas gens are "probes" not mines, they don't get the 3s window and thus hvy plas only last 7s. I don't think we should change hvy plas though.
Mass is a good point. Right now its the same as prox - 3 per unit, meaning on figs that carry 2 MPs per slot (Bios & TF) its 6 mass, or the same as a Hvy cloak 2. That mass disappears after its been used though. For reference, Hvy plas gens are also 3 mass each, although with TF's accel bonus its not as noticeable.juckto wrote:QUOTE (juckto @ Jul 19 2009, 01:59 AM) I would like to see mine packs have less mass. It doesn't make sense to me that something that has a lot less volume and less duration has the same mass.
Last edited by Xeretov on Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
I have no problems using minepacks.
Using my mine calculator, increasing the radius makes the speed a craft has to die at low speed higher very slightly higher, but makes the speed where if they go faster than it they don't spend enough time in the field to die much higher
remember it's a radius, so in reality the field is 50m bigger as you get an extra 25m on each side (also including front and back, which increases the time you spend in the field.Xeretov wrote:QUOTE (Xeretov @ Jul 19 2009, 06:21 AM) For reference, prox is only 25m larger than minepack and it does fine.
Using my mine calculator, increasing the radius makes the speed a craft has to die at low speed higher very slightly higher, but makes the speed where if they go faster than it they don't spend enough time in the field to die much higher
I think it's the same for everything so won't be changed.Weylin wrote:QUOTE (Weylin @ Jul 19 2009, 11:56 AM) Is it possible to adjust mine activation time? Is it a global attribute? Or is this a code change.
Last edited by madpeople on Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
