Fighter-Bombers.

[slap]

QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jun 20 2009, 06:25 PM) So what? Forum lawyer somewhere else.

Yes I'll allow people to make bad arguments about Community Core. Because that won't result in a bad community core. The CC forums are a place for argumentation, you don't like someone pointing out your arguments flaws maybe you should think them out more? Don't take it personal, its all about the argument not you.

[Xeretov]

This is Community Core not Community Politics. Stick to the numbers and reasoning, not arguing over who has the best argument.

[zombywoof]

If you'd like some actual anecdotal evidence, the other day I commanded Rix vs Belters, and my mini3 heavy ints were able to defend against two figbee runs, 3k/4k drops each. The game size was 20v20 iirc, so apparently figbees are stoppable even at 20v20. As has been said repeatedly, CC is attempting to balance between 10 to 20 people a side.

Yes, Belters were using AB2. Yes, they had cruise booster.

In my opinion, and you can take this or leave it, the only times figbee runs are unstoppable is if they are uneyed. Figbee runs are uneyed because of team incompetence, not core imbalance, and CC should not be balanced with team incompetence in mind. We can't say, "Oh, people can't aim, therefore we should make figbees bigger" or "oh, people don't probe, so we should raise the sig of TP2 scouts." You may as well say "oh, people don't stfn so we should lower the hull on bbrs and make minigun more effective vs medium hull."

It is my opinion that figbees are possible to stop with expansion. With sup it comes down (usually) to who can afford their TP2 figbees first (onoes, the team that gets their tech up first wins, how sad) and with Tac your opponent isn't supposed to be able to afford their adv tech. They are good, they are not broken, and I do not think they need fixing. If we were going to change them at all, a small nerf to their models (say a 10-15% increase) is almost certainly sufficient.


If your argument is "we should change them because they're too similar to XRM bbrs" none of this post matters to you

[Death3D]

Belter FBs are broken. Doesn't make the point null, but you have to take that into that anecdote.

[Kltplzyxm]

Or is it that everything else is and Belter FB is fine?

[jpomailo2]

instead of XRM anti base, i think it would be cool to have low dmg, quick firing, non-base killing XRM's for d against FigBee tp2 runs and or long range galv runs...but mostly figbee

[takingarms1]

QUOTE (phoenix1 @ Jun 23 2009, 04:36 PM) If you'd like some actual anecdotal evidence, the other day I commanded Rix vs Belters, and my mini3 heavy ints were able to defend against two figbee runs, 3k/4k drops each.

This evidence rather sucks when you consider rix mini3 hvys are the most powerful guns in the game and belter figs are probably the weakest in terms of the combo of hitpoints/model/manuverability in the game.

Also, how balanced was the game? How well executed were the figbee runs? (did they run into a camp?) BTW, this is why one anecdote is rather weak sauce when it comes to evidence. You need statistics over many games, and when you consider those, the consensus is that figbee runs are basically the win button.

[notjarvis]

QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jun 24 2009, 03:48 PM) This evidence rather sucks when you consider rix mini3 hvys are the most powerful guns in the game and belter figs are probably the weakest in terms of the combo of hitpoints/model/manuverability in the game.

Also, how balanced was the game? How well executed were the figbee runs? (did they run into a camp?) BTW, this is why one anecdote is rather weak sauce when it comes to evidence. You need statistics over many games, and when you consider those, the consensus is that figbee runs are basically the win button.

If its the game I was thinking of - the first TP2 was pretty good and the team did well to d it (1 more Ab would have killed the base IIRC) - the second was an aleph drop at a pretty meh distance and didnt get close.
The game also pointed out the pretty big weakness with the figbee runs in that the defending team had a couple of bombers out while the runs were happening, and basically cleaned the figbeeing team off the map while they tried it - figbee runs = manpower expensive.


I still think Figbees should be a pretty powerful tech thats pretty hard to stop. Repeated failed figbee runs will mean games will end up like Gravs 4 hour epic of a few weeks ago.

If people are determined to nerf Figbee runs so they fail often, I hope they perk the time it takes the sup team to get them so that they appear earlier.

I keep saying this - but I don't want longer games, and I think a few people would agree with me.

[spideycw]

QUOTE (Mr. Kltplzyxm @ Jun 23 2009, 06:13 PM) Or is it that everything else is and Belter FB is fine?

Maybe its better to say Belters FB's are not in line with other factions FB's

[zombywoof]

QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jun 24 2009, 07:48 AM) This evidence rather sucks when you consider rix mini3 hvys are the most powerful guns in the game and belter figs are probably the weakest in terms of the combo of hitpoints/model/manuverability in the game.

OK, sure. How about you tell us about all the games you've played against figbees?

QUOTE Also, how balanced was the game? How well executed were the figbee runs? (did they run into a camp?) BTW, this is why one anecdote is rather weak sauce when it comes to evidence. You need statistics over many games, and when you consider those, the consensus is that figbee runs are basically the win button.[/quote]
Stack was against me (slightly), the figbee runs were pretty well executed as there was no camp.

I never claimed this as the end-all-be-all of the discussion, so stop acting like I did.