Community Core Special Editions
The special editions should really be based around minor tweaks so that the gameplay feels very similar to standard CC but with slightly different strengths and weaknesses. It should not be used for major changes like IC base galvability unless CC goes the same way.
Spidey: Can't think of a reason I'd need to know anything
IC does well in squad games because those lt. ints are dominant for having a shark-like model and pretty solid gunmounts. The model makes them elusive in the hands of a pilot who understands how to thrust up/down instead of only left/right. A hull reduction would be in line with diminishing their opening effectiveness in a Squad Game.
Belters' power became exceptionally more significant with the 15%(or 10?) decrease in fighter size. Making those enh fig nans harder to kill. If the fighters were reverted back to their original size, belters would once again be alright in a squad game but nothing that a smart team can't handle.
GT has potential but it does take a wily commander to truly be profitable with them, since their opening is weak due to those GT fighters. I fear that buffing the fighters too much and making GT better than average at the opening would make GT unstoppable, since once the econ gets going and enh tech is up, it's very hard to slow them down. IMO a fuel perk at the very least would make GT opening fighters decent, maybe better acceleration too.
TF miners need a larger energy pool so their economy may survive to make it to their first tech base. Perhaps a 50-75% energy bonus is inline so more scouts can rip to them to save them. Once they get their tech rolling they are fine, but for those first 12 minutes their economy is very, very weak to starter-or-better-ship miner rushes.
BIOS I'm not too much of a fan of, but they suffer the same problem with their opening miners much like TF. Maybe give them a 15-25% bonus to their basic miner hull. Their frail miners drop fast, and that is one of the major disadvantage they have working against them.
Dreg is at the moment the BEST IC-Expansion counter in a squad game due to their spec refs. Perhaps move them to starbase and then half the cost to research? The spec refs are not hard to get, after you get the 1st one up the rest can be online rather quickly, the hurdle is getting that 1st one established and out the door.
Giga -> double the hitpoints of the lt op and lt tp. Increase the fuel economy and scan range of the patroller.
Rix I believe is where it should be in terms of SG play. A slight nerf to the opening SR is probably in order in the manner of nerfing their energy regeneration rate by a factor of 2.
Those are my opinions.
Belters' power became exceptionally more significant with the 15%(or 10?) decrease in fighter size. Making those enh fig nans harder to kill. If the fighters were reverted back to their original size, belters would once again be alright in a squad game but nothing that a smart team can't handle.
GT has potential but it does take a wily commander to truly be profitable with them, since their opening is weak due to those GT fighters. I fear that buffing the fighters too much and making GT better than average at the opening would make GT unstoppable, since once the econ gets going and enh tech is up, it's very hard to slow them down. IMO a fuel perk at the very least would make GT opening fighters decent, maybe better acceleration too.
TF miners need a larger energy pool so their economy may survive to make it to their first tech base. Perhaps a 50-75% energy bonus is inline so more scouts can rip to them to save them. Once they get their tech rolling they are fine, but for those first 12 minutes their economy is very, very weak to starter-or-better-ship miner rushes.
BIOS I'm not too much of a fan of, but they suffer the same problem with their opening miners much like TF. Maybe give them a 15-25% bonus to their basic miner hull. Their frail miners drop fast, and that is one of the major disadvantage they have working against them.
Dreg is at the moment the BEST IC-Expansion counter in a squad game due to their spec refs. Perhaps move them to starbase and then half the cost to research? The spec refs are not hard to get, after you get the 1st one up the rest can be online rather quickly, the hurdle is getting that 1st one established and out the door.
Giga -> double the hitpoints of the lt op and lt tp. Increase the fuel economy and scan range of the patroller.
Rix I believe is where it should be in terms of SG play. A slight nerf to the opening SR is probably in order in the manner of nerfing their energy regeneration rate by a factor of 2.
Those are my opinions.
cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Oct 16 2010, 02:48 AM) Interceptors are fun because without one, Drizzo would be physically incapable of entering a sector.
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CronoDroid
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SG Core:
IC:
-Nerf fuel on the ints. Ints should be able to dogfight especially well but a major advantage IC has over other factions is their ability to quickly boost through alephs and camp, which gives them an advantage when it comes to planting the con.
-Less ammo. This will cut their endurance like the fuel nerf.
Basically these changes will mean that IC will still be dominant if and when they come into contact with your forces (as it should be) but don't have the endurance to keep fighting and fighting, like if the enemy rushes with a large force of fighters for example. The ints would run out of ammo and might not have enough fuel to chase after the enemy con and kill it, but would otherwise dominate the enemy in a fight.
Additionally, this would mean IC won't have enough fuel and ammo to push a con four sectors , so it would limit their ability to aggressive take the map and pwn the enemy by the six minute mark.
Giga:
-Perk Patties. Simple, give them back the fuel they used to have and maybe increase ammo or missile capacity.
-Perk Lt Carriers. Patties/Lt Carriers was THE strategy back in the day (when I started), they were oogly good for early Giga dominance, now, not so much. Or maybe give Giga Reg Carriers to start.
I'm not sure why some people think Giga don't need an opening perk. Giga is pretty much useless in a SG unless your squad is overwhelmingly better than the enemy, especially against IC or Dreg. Their cons are fast, yes, but their fighting ships can't stand up to the test against Rix, Dreg or IC. Of course going Giga vs Rix in an SG is pretty silly anyhow, but perking the opening will give them a chance to dig in their heels and survive the IC/Dreg/Rix onslaught to come back and win.
I disagree with the notion that perking Giga's opening should require nerfing their ending. Their midgame and endgame isn't too flash, not in a SG when you can actually assemble your team to use Dis2 against the enemy bases. As such,
-Perk Giga small base hull.
This will increase their longevity considerably.
Optional:
-Change Giga's econ. No squad plays on silly settings that allows Giga to use all of that 1.25 capacity as Brood said. Capacity is no where near as good as Yield or even Speed, and Giga has always been about rapid economic dominance. As such, perhaps they should get a small speed/yield perk and normal capacity, like 1.1/1.1/1.0 respectively. Of course this could lead to an imbalance which is why this is an optional change.
Other factions are okay as far as I can see, unless of course you're Brood and decide to go GT vs Rix against XT on Star.
IC:
-Nerf fuel on the ints. Ints should be able to dogfight especially well but a major advantage IC has over other factions is their ability to quickly boost through alephs and camp, which gives them an advantage when it comes to planting the con.
-Less ammo. This will cut their endurance like the fuel nerf.
Basically these changes will mean that IC will still be dominant if and when they come into contact with your forces (as it should be) but don't have the endurance to keep fighting and fighting, like if the enemy rushes with a large force of fighters for example. The ints would run out of ammo and might not have enough fuel to chase after the enemy con and kill it, but would otherwise dominate the enemy in a fight.
Additionally, this would mean IC won't have enough fuel and ammo to push a con four sectors , so it would limit their ability to aggressive take the map and pwn the enemy by the six minute mark.
Giga:
-Perk Patties. Simple, give them back the fuel they used to have and maybe increase ammo or missile capacity.
-Perk Lt Carriers. Patties/Lt Carriers was THE strategy back in the day (when I started), they were oogly good for early Giga dominance, now, not so much. Or maybe give Giga Reg Carriers to start.
I'm not sure why some people think Giga don't need an opening perk. Giga is pretty much useless in a SG unless your squad is overwhelmingly better than the enemy, especially against IC or Dreg. Their cons are fast, yes, but their fighting ships can't stand up to the test against Rix, Dreg or IC. Of course going Giga vs Rix in an SG is pretty silly anyhow, but perking the opening will give them a chance to dig in their heels and survive the IC/Dreg/Rix onslaught to come back and win.
I disagree with the notion that perking Giga's opening should require nerfing their ending. Their midgame and endgame isn't too flash, not in a SG when you can actually assemble your team to use Dis2 against the enemy bases. As such,
-Perk Giga small base hull.
This will increase their longevity considerably.
Optional:
-Change Giga's econ. No squad plays on silly settings that allows Giga to use all of that 1.25 capacity as Brood said. Capacity is no where near as good as Yield or even Speed, and Giga has always been about rapid economic dominance. As such, perhaps they should get a small speed/yield perk and normal capacity, like 1.1/1.1/1.0 respectively. Of course this could lead to an imbalance which is why this is an optional change.
Other factions are okay as far as I can see, unless of course you're Brood and decide to go GT vs Rix against XT on Star.
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CronoDroid
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Agreed with both.Drizzo wrote:QUOTE (Drizzo @ May 5 2009, 02:28 PM) Belters' power became exceptionally more significant with the 15%(or 10?) decrease in fighter size. Making those enh fig nans harder to kill. If the fighters were reverted back to their original size, belters would once again be alright in a squad game but nothing that a smart team can't handle.
Giga -> double the hitpoints of the lt op and lt tp. Increase the fuel economy and scan range of the patroller.
In a couple of days I'll sit down and fiddle with ICE until I can determine what I need to do, then I'll take up responsibility for making a SGC that has minor changes from the standard CC. Keep the comments flowing in!
As for Giga, I am leery of giving their bases too much hull. I agree that there needs to be a change in it, but how much? I'd rather give them the ability to get regular bases, but that's one of those things CC would have to consider first. Can anyone show some TEK (or other accurate) figures on how long it takes to kill a Giga base with dis1/dis2 at different hull strengths? Assuming probably 12 ships for a full run would be good.
As for Giga, I am leery of giving their bases too much hull. I agree that there needs to be a change in it, but how much? I'd rather give them the ability to get regular bases, but that's one of those things CC would have to consider first. Can anyone show some TEK (or other accurate) figures on how long it takes to kill a Giga base with dis1/dis2 at different hull strengths? Assuming probably 12 ships for a full run would be good.
Last edited by DasSmiter on Tue May 05, 2009 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CronoDroid
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Why make things needlessly complicated by giving them the ability to make reg small bases which clogs up the build menu?DasSmiter wrote:QUOTE (DasSmiter @ May 5 2009, 03:24 PM) As for Giga, I am leery of giving their bases too much hull. I agree that there needs to be a change in it, but how much? I'd rather give them the ability to get regular bases, but that's one of those things CC would have to consider first. Can anyone show some TEK (or other accurate) figures on how long it takes to kill a Giga base with dis1/dis2 at different hull strengths? Assuming probably 12 ships for a full run would be good.
Giga Small bases are a joke right now, I checked TEK but it doesn't say what the TTK is with an Enh Fig and three Dis2s (maybe I'm just not using it correctly). But the Giga Op's current hull/shield is 6666 each, which is the same for all factions as far as I can see (ICE). I would assume that is before faction hull/shield nerfs and armour class. Anyhow, I can feel from experience that Giga bases are far too weak, a 12 man Dis2 run would zap that @#(! in seconds.
I don't want to guess on exact numbers but doubling sounds like a good place to start if you really want to give Giga some gumption, but if that seems excessive then a 50-75% increase would do nicely.
Other than that, perking Patties and Lt Carriers will make Giga's start much more satisfying like it was back in the day.
The way to go about changing Giga's damage for their lt bases is with damage modifiers, not hull, as hull effects EVERYTHING, especially Anti-Base weapons. Doubling their hull would make them stupidly tough against AB missiles - tougher than any other faction. However, you can simply halve the damage done by Dis, Gat, Mini, whatever.
With enough KB you can zap a giga op with 1 missile, or damn near close to it. 1 missile right now using AB1 and like a 10 (in most SGs the bomber pilot will, or should have atleast a 21) the op will lose all of its shields and maybe 60% of its hull. You double the hull and it will still take 2 missiles imo.
cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Oct 16 2010, 02:48 AM) Interceptors are fun because without one, Drizzo would be physically incapable of entering a sector.