Things that could use a change

Dorjan · Post by **Dorjan** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:14 pm

Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Apr 30 2009, 12:18 PM) Um clearly yes it does.

Vs Any other Faction you have the following options: Galv, Bomb, Heavy Bomb, TP2, Figbees.
Vs IC You have the following options: Bomb, Heavy Bomb, TP2, Figbees.

Can you see how one list is shorter than the others?

Obviously that's a simplification because there's a multitude of ways of using each technique and some are game enders whilst others merely buy you breathing space but nevertheless the fact that you can't galv vs IC reduces the number of available options.

Losing one option doesn't make Sup as a whole bad. It makes it weaker sure, but part of alleg is the way you have to change tactics depending on your enemy faction, their tech path, the map, the settings etc...

if everything worked against everything it would be pretty bland and as a commander, well.. it would be "too" easy to learn how to play really well and nothing to aspire to.

IMO ofc.

I like playing against IC as a commander since it's differnet than facing Rix for example. Rix can't use missiles so i'm more likely to buy seaker 3 etc against them because of this. What about belters not using shields? SS3 thank you! We have the edge! whoo!

This diversity is what makes alleg. Restricting paths to open up other methods is GOOD. Requires thought about more than what you want to do and more about what they are doing.

Dorjan · Post by **Dorjan** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:01 pm

I still think instead of making IC galvable, which, let's face it changing IC as a whole.

Maybe consider these options:

1) Make yield 0.9.
OR
2) Make cost of cons / tech bases slight more expensive

Since they are the same cost as Rix which, again lets face it, doesn't make sense.

Dorjan · Post by **Dorjan** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:12 pm

HSharp wrote:QUOTE (HSharp @ Apr 30 2009, 02:08 PM) Maybe we should split this topic into a new topic specifically discussing whether IC minor bases should be galvable or not?

Thats just it, it is mostly relivent. You can't have a vote on minor bases becoming galvable if you don't take the whole IC picture into consideration.

spideycw · Post by **spideycw** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 3:41 pm

The majority of you people aren't funny - even though you think you are.

When I am trying to read this topic and take into account all the information - the last thing I want to read is brood whining about how tac sucks.

Stop wasting my time with your nonsense.

Moving along - I think there are really good points on both sides. However I think now we have gone as far as we can on the topic of IC bases being galved. Myself or Apochi will split a new topic with the relevant info about other changes to IC.

any other comments about IC bases being galved keep em in here

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:00 pm

Ok my point which I think you deleted can be summed up as follows;

Bios are not immune to tac, they are however good at facing tac due to thier uber scan-range
IC on the other hand are immune to galvs while I am proposing that it turns into just really damn hard to galv.

So with the changes you can go Tac vs Bios but you will have a tough time, and you can go Sup and galv vs IC but you will have a tough time.

IC having bases which take twice as long to galv then other factions (and thats excluding station hull and shield perks IC has) means that you are going to need a lot of people dedicated to a galv run to take out the base just like vs Bios you need a big team effort to clear path for SB's and bomb.

P.S. I'l have you know that I have been considered hilarious and I might take a career in stand-up comedy!

spideycw · Post by **spideycw** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:13 pm

Just to make sure I understand your argument is:

Bios is not immune to an entire tech path
IC is immune to one tech of one tech path

Thus IC should be made vulnerable to the one tech from the one tech path - but not to the degree other factions are.

Because, going Sup against IC is hard(-er than going tac against bios? hmmm)

Correct?

snufkin · Post by **snufkin** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:25 pm

What I dont understand is that Sup is not just about galvs. IC may be immune to midgame Sup galvruns, but this has nothing to do with the rest of the tree, namely figbbrs.

I would rather keep the current IC bases and look for some other solution to balance IC.

cashto · Post by **cashto** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:35 pm

Raveen wrote:QUOTE (Raveen @ Apr 30 2009, 02:15 AM) You forgot: Instant Enh/Adv ships, Rescue Probes, Starting Lt Ints, The Various Stat Perks, Miners Unload at Techs and anything I've forgotten. IC has a lot of unique stuff (some of which has been added to non-MS factions but blame Noir and Veggie for that) and ungalvable bases/ripping miners are only a small part of that.

Not just unique stuff, but radical and unique stuff ...

Instant ships is radical and unique (and I wouldn't remove it -- even though it wouldn't make a difference at the end of the day, seeing that build/upgrade time is twice as long as normal and the cost for upgrade is more than other factions).

Rescue probes aren't unique (and I'd be meh if they were removed from IC).

Stat perks/nerfs aren't radical.

Miners unload at techs is a longer way of saying "no refs". I see it as a liability for IC in general. Also not unique to IC.

Post by **pkk** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:02 pm

IC has a long history of "peeks" and "nerfs":

DN000460:
IC he3 speed increased to 85% (70%)

DN000401:
IC he3 speed decreased to 70% (75%)

DN000362:
IC needs 3 mins to upgrade techbase (instand of 2)

DM000301:
IC needs 4 mins to build a tech con (instand of 5)IC gets 20% energy bonusIC he3 speed increased to 75% (50%)

DN000216:
IC needs 5 mins to build a tech con (instand of 2)

DN000204:
IC he3 speed decreased to 50% (100%)

DM MS 1.25:
loosing 5% shiphull

MS 1.23:
TT/HTT no longer can mount HvyCloak

MS 1.22:
IC no longer needs to research Rescue Probe

MS 1.21:
IC miners mine at normal speed, but carry 25% less he3IC no longer has to research Enh/Adv shipsIC no longer starts with XRM Cruise Missile researchedIC Figs/Ints have closer gunmountsIC does 5% less damage with gunsIC does 10% more damage with missiles

MS 1.11
IC Cruisers are 25% more expensiveIC HvyOP lose 33% of hull and shieldsIC miners can offload at techbases

MS 1.1
IC gets Rescue Probe, must be researched in GarrisonIC income increased to 525 creditsIC Cruisers can mount Destroyer class missilesIC OP costs decreased? to 5000 creditsIC Tele is no more galvableIC gets DevastatorsIC Tele rescues pods

PS:
This list is fragmentary.

HSharp · Post by **HSharp** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 5:13 pm

spideycw wrote:QUOTE (spideycw @ Apr 30 2009, 05:13 PM) Just to make sure I understand your argument is:

Bios is not immune to an entire tech path
IC is immune to one tech of one tech path

Thus IC should be made vulnerable to the one tech from the one tech path - but not to the degree other factions are.

Because, going Sup against IC is hard(-er than going tac against bios? hmmm)

Correct?

Yes!