Things that could use a change
Small Shield 2 would stay in Garrison with Small Shield 3 moving to Sup.
I'm sorry I don't remember any of it. For you the day spideycw graced your squad with utter destruction was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Sunday
Idanmel wrote:QUOTE (Idanmel @ Mar 19 2012, 05:54 AM) I am ashamed for all the drama I caused, I have much to learn on how to behave when things don't go my way.
My apologies.
OK, at least we are agreeing on some points.
Hsharp wrote:I can see your point about faction diversity but there is no other faction apart from IC that pretty much trumps an entire techpath
The problem here is that IC's EXP is too strong rather than their galvable bases? I thought the arguement was Sup was useless against IC?Adept wrote:Like HSharp says it trumps one path, and thus it doesn't add to the diversity, it reduces it. It's not something an IC commander has to take into consideration, but rather means that he doesn't have to worry about a large facet of the game at all. That, in my opinion is the reason IC is considered easy for a beginning commander
I decided to relive the days gone by in my new blog.
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Remember, what I say is IMO always. If I say that something sucks, it actually means "I think it sucks" OK?
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Remember, what I say is IMO always. If I say that something sucks, it actually means "I think it sucks" OK?
Cookie Monster wrote:QUOTE (Cookie Monster @ Jan 31 2012, 03:09 PM) True story.
Except the big about dorjan being jelly, that's just spidey's ego.
I dont think IC's exp is overpowered, it helps when they have ungalvable bases vs sup but the issue is IC trumps sup regardless of what techpath IC choose. Galving is a huge part of sup tech so having it completly removed really sucks.
I think Adept actually puts it nicely in that it's not really diversity but more like if you command IC then it's like a safety net not having to worry about bases being galved
I think Adept actually puts it nicely in that it's not really diversity but more like if you command IC then it's like a safety net not having to worry about bases being galved
It is true that the same strat is viable against pretty much every faction, more or less anything applied towards IC can be used towards any faction. There's nothing to stop you from using SY vs Sup and having it work, it just requires a different way of tackling the problem (and SY vs Sup can, and does work marvelously if you're not obvious about it).
Yes if you do take it from a numbers point of view the sup team does have a lot more to give in order to get to the goal (victory) but let's look at a different set of numbers shall we?
Timing.
Let's take GT for example, since GT is a $#@!ing awesome way to blow up IC. So you're playing GT vs IC on star and your 2 adjacent sectors are 1 carb rock decently placed and 1 tac rock badly placed, you want to get tech fast so you just buy a sup. Let's say your sup is high-short, and your op is middle-low. GT would have both bases established by the 6-8 minute mark. You want to play this game aggressively so you start your bombers after you finish your sup con, you're looking at bombers being ready as well at the 6-8 minute mark. Wait 2 minutes for AB2/AC2, which is easily affordable, and by 10 minutes you are ready to lay waste to mini2 ints and blow up bases.
Now the fastest IC can get hvy ints up with a comm who has half an idea of what an economy is, is roughly 14-18 minutes. I give a 4 minute swing for tards who don't understand how to partial a 3 minute research time.
Given the tightness of Star and the fact that people are $#@!ing scared of going Home Techs these days, you can assume after you bomb that 1st op, their exp/other tech, is within ONE sector's of your bombing crew, and most of their team should already be podded. You have free reign now to apply pressure on their expansion and hopefully take it out, also a clever commander would have put a tele up behind his/her bomb run so that should it fail another run is ready to go immediately and take it out.
How many times have you seen this scenario played out? IC Exp blown up with 30k invested in it. You don't have to play numbers here because with GT all of the required tech is EASILY affordable, same thing with belters, and both are naturally the two strongest bombing factions.
Okay so they stopped your bomb run yeah? They have adv tech while you have enh tech? You have something that exp itself needs now. Map control. Stick an eyed bomber somewhere, get them to camp, scare them, probe alephs so you see ints coming (not your alephs either). If you control the high/low and middle chokes (which you should, after bombing that op) you'll be able to get adv tech easily. Again how many times have you seen this scenario played out? IC has hvy ints with no map, the other team just techs up and takes them out.
I used to tell this to my RT squad-mates all the time when I was in RT, numbers do not mean everything. Yes sup has to pay more for their @#(!, and that's probably why sup does FANTASTIC with factions such as GT and Belters, but them having to pay more does not mean that they automatically lose vs Expansion.
Yes if you do take it from a numbers point of view the sup team does have a lot more to give in order to get to the goal (victory) but let's look at a different set of numbers shall we?
Timing.
Let's take GT for example, since GT is a $#@!ing awesome way to blow up IC. So you're playing GT vs IC on star and your 2 adjacent sectors are 1 carb rock decently placed and 1 tac rock badly placed, you want to get tech fast so you just buy a sup. Let's say your sup is high-short, and your op is middle-low. GT would have both bases established by the 6-8 minute mark. You want to play this game aggressively so you start your bombers after you finish your sup con, you're looking at bombers being ready as well at the 6-8 minute mark. Wait 2 minutes for AB2/AC2, which is easily affordable, and by 10 minutes you are ready to lay waste to mini2 ints and blow up bases.
Now the fastest IC can get hvy ints up with a comm who has half an idea of what an economy is, is roughly 14-18 minutes. I give a 4 minute swing for tards who don't understand how to partial a 3 minute research time.
Given the tightness of Star and the fact that people are $#@!ing scared of going Home Techs these days, you can assume after you bomb that 1st op, their exp/other tech, is within ONE sector's of your bombing crew, and most of their team should already be podded. You have free reign now to apply pressure on their expansion and hopefully take it out, also a clever commander would have put a tele up behind his/her bomb run so that should it fail another run is ready to go immediately and take it out.
How many times have you seen this scenario played out? IC Exp blown up with 30k invested in it. You don't have to play numbers here because with GT all of the required tech is EASILY affordable, same thing with belters, and both are naturally the two strongest bombing factions.
Okay so they stopped your bomb run yeah? They have adv tech while you have enh tech? You have something that exp itself needs now. Map control. Stick an eyed bomber somewhere, get them to camp, scare them, probe alephs so you see ints coming (not your alephs either). If you control the high/low and middle chokes (which you should, after bombing that op) you'll be able to get adv tech easily. Again how many times have you seen this scenario played out? IC has hvy ints with no map, the other team just techs up and takes them out.
I used to tell this to my RT squad-mates all the time when I was in RT, numbers do not mean everything. Yes sup has to pay more for their @#(!, and that's probably why sup does FANTASTIC with factions such as GT and Belters, but them having to pay more does not mean that they automatically lose vs Expansion.
cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Oct 16 2010, 02:48 AM) Interceptors are fun because without one, Drizzo would be physically incapable of entering a sector.
This is a separate post because it warrants a separate argument.
Galvs. Galvs are nice and all, but come on, it's one piece of $#@!ing tech. You guys are acting like there is no other option for Sup teams outside of galvs when you hit late game. Galvs are not the be all and end all for sup teams. Stop treating it that way.
I don't see anyone play supyard anymore. I don't see anyone pushing out attack carriers + enh figs vs ints, granted that's because we have a lot of newer commanders, but there are so many more options and ways to tackle IC that transcends the galvonic blaster, they're just waiting for you to think outside the box and find them.
Galvs right now are a get out of jail free card. Oh @#(! we sucked at overpowering them with ab2 bombers when we had the chance, Oh @#(! we didn't want to buy bombers and now we're boxed in FML!
There is more depth to the rubix cube then just lining up white first and trying to work from there.
Galvs. Galvs are nice and all, but come on, it's one piece of $#@!ing tech. You guys are acting like there is no other option for Sup teams outside of galvs when you hit late game. Galvs are not the be all and end all for sup teams. Stop treating it that way.
I don't see anyone play supyard anymore. I don't see anyone pushing out attack carriers + enh figs vs ints, granted that's because we have a lot of newer commanders, but there are so many more options and ways to tackle IC that transcends the galvonic blaster, they're just waiting for you to think outside the box and find them.
Galvs right now are a get out of jail free card. Oh @#(! we sucked at overpowering them with ab2 bombers when we had the chance, Oh @#(! we didn't want to buy bombers and now we're boxed in FML!
There is more depth to the rubix cube then just lining up white first and trying to work from there.
cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Oct 16 2010, 02:48 AM) Interceptors are fun because without one, Drizzo would be physically incapable of entering a sector.
Yes nice post Drizzle and I agree with what you say, but i'm not saying it's specific to IC Exp, it might be a plan to go Sup vs IC Tac to get strong bombers and better scan range but vs IC Sup or IC Exp then sup doesn't become the best choice anymore simply because its impossible to galv them back, IC Sup is really powerful vs any other factions sup by just being able to push tele's and mine with them quickly hell I feel like doing some IC Sup now because it can be cheesy and has nice outs if the enemy is overpowering you with exp because you can smack a sy in thier face.
Drizzo I want to know though because you haven't made it clear, how do you feel if IC ops and teles can be galved?
Drizzo I want to know though because you haven't made it clear, how do you feel if IC ops and teles can be galved?
You should also speak about Giga light bases, there is no real way to defend them in large games against enh tech. 
The Escapist (Justin Emerson) @ Dec 21 2010, 02:33 PM:
The history of open-source Allegiance is paved with the bodies of dead code branches, forum flame wars, and personal vendettas. But a community remains because people still love the game.
I would hate it. I love sup because of it's versatility, but I feel that galvs just makes things too easy. And in a large enough game they're nigh unstoppable due to the lack of dynamic scaling with base HP in co-relation to team size. To input such a thing would take a large amount of coding, which makes it unfeasible to ask for.
Look at IC now. Imagine if they were galvable. What's going to stop me from going belters and rushing galvs then just galving you off the map every single game?
20 minutes, tops, and your map control is gone, and proper map control as IC is something that's important to have. If you don't have it, you can't win. Well maybe by divine intervention you might, but other then that you are most likely bagged.
Okay let me elaborate a bit more on this.
Giving IC the disadvantage to being galvs you remove TWO of their strongest perks. Ungalvable bases and ripping miners. Buy a carrier, go around carrier galving all teles and their miners will have to walk. I don't know about you but I cringe every time I see an IC miner walking, because it's so painfully slow.
If you want to make IC bases galvable, fine, but Homogenize it first. Give all factions an option to create hvy outposts/tps. IC just starts out with them, other factions have to buy them. Giga can just be upgraded to regular. And introduce a specialized fighter mounted missile(EoR anyone?!) that does damage to hvy base hull, and make it so that galvs can only damage the shield. That would be balanced. The missile doesn't have to cost more then 2.5k (like galvs) but it makes it so that hvy ops/tps still mean SOMETHING rather then just an op with more hp.
Look at IC now. Imagine if they were galvable. What's going to stop me from going belters and rushing galvs then just galving you off the map every single game?
20 minutes, tops, and your map control is gone, and proper map control as IC is something that's important to have. If you don't have it, you can't win. Well maybe by divine intervention you might, but other then that you are most likely bagged.
Okay let me elaborate a bit more on this.
Giving IC the disadvantage to being galvs you remove TWO of their strongest perks. Ungalvable bases and ripping miners. Buy a carrier, go around carrier galving all teles and their miners will have to walk. I don't know about you but I cringe every time I see an IC miner walking, because it's so painfully slow.
If you want to make IC bases galvable, fine, but Homogenize it first. Give all factions an option to create hvy outposts/tps. IC just starts out with them, other factions have to buy them. Giga can just be upgraded to regular. And introduce a specialized fighter mounted missile(EoR anyone?!) that does damage to hvy base hull, and make it so that galvs can only damage the shield. That would be balanced. The missile doesn't have to cost more then 2.5k (like galvs) but it makes it so that hvy ops/tps still mean SOMETHING rather then just an op with more hp.
Last edited by Drizzo on Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cashto wrote:QUOTE (cashto @ Oct 16 2010, 02:48 AM) Interceptors are fun because without one, Drizzo would be physically incapable of entering a sector.
You could consider removing CMs from IC. Those have the most direct effect against Sup/Tac missile factions. Buying advanced MRM/LRM could be delayed a bit since that wouldn't improve their CM resistance.
MRM 1 vs CM 1 has a 50% chance of missing. LRM 1 vs CM 1 a 40% chance. QF 1 a bit higher than 50%. The ratios change with improved missiles and CMs.
Missile lock and CM algorithms are here:
http://www.freeallegiance.org/forums/index...?showtopic=2492
MRM 1 vs CM 1 has a 50% chance of missing. LRM 1 vs CM 1 a 40% chance. QF 1 a bit higher than 50%. The ratios change with improved missiles and CMs.
Missile lock and CM algorithms are here:
http://www.freeallegiance.org/forums/index...?showtopic=2492
Last edited by SpaceJunk on Wed Apr 29, 2009 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
And this has WHAT to do with the discussion going on?
I'm sorry I don't remember any of it. For you the day spideycw graced your squad with utter destruction was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Sunday
Idanmel wrote:QUOTE (Idanmel @ Mar 19 2012, 05:54 AM) I am ashamed for all the drama I caused, I have much to learn on how to behave when things don't go my way.
My apologies.