I'm very confused.

Rand0m_Numb3r · Post by **Rand0m_Numb3r** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 4:22 am

After a while ppl get over no missiles and what not and play TF more and more. I have the hardest time seeing any weaknesses other then the 3-6 min window when they only have scouts. but a quick tecbase keeps that time low enough for it to be no easier than bombing IC early

What is their weakness?

Myrmidon · Post by **Myrmidon** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:10 am

Lack of opposable thumbs.

Grimmwolf_GB · Post by **Grimmwolf_GB** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 6:18 am

Their low speed is a weakness in the beginning until they get enh cons.

Shizoku · Post by **Shizoku** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:23 am

Their miners bring in like 3500 and cost 5k. To kill a miner is a severe kick in the balls.

Mastametz · Post by **Mastametz** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:28 am

TF's main weakness as compared to other factions is that it doesn't start with light ints.
So if you want to beat TF, you go IC and drive them into the ground.
If you don't, you lose.
If you take too long, you lose.
Basically you're probably going to lose.
TF FTW.

Lykourgos · Post by **Lykourgos** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:08 am

Slow speed (meaning slow cons and difficulty getting around, and that miners can't run so well and take a while bringing a load in, and that you can't remote mine well at all).

Slow research times, meaning you can't just get enh cons and solve the first problem, and that the opposing team has an opportunity to rape your economy/techbase before your tech is up. Those scouts don't really bomber d very well.

No prox, no caltrops.

Bombers that can fail due to stupidity on the turrets' part.

These aren't to say that tf isn't very strong-it is. Just that the reason that it's winning so much is that people are playing against it incorrectly, and for some godforsaken reason they think that IC is the faction to beat TF. It isn't. Yes, IC has light ints- so if you're going to push into their home and bomb, that's fine. But otherwise IC also has slow cons, no strong miner offensive, and worse heavy ints than TF. Sun-Tzu says: Match your strengths to your enemies weaknesses. Now, who has fast cons, a good miner offense, and the ability to control the map? Two factions come to mind.

juckto · Post by **juckto** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:42 am

QUOTE and the ability to control the map?[/quote]Bios! Bios turtles everybody! /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

Don't tf have a relatively large hit box, too?

Mastametz · Post by **Mastametz** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 8:52 am

If you play IC like it actually is supposed to be played, it will beat TF.
Most people can't pull that off.
If you play dreg like a non-idiot, it can beat TF.
Also not going to happen.
IC has a much better shot.
Rix has comparable ints, and great starting figs, plus ripscouts.
Rix vs TF is good.
I'll still pwn tf with IC.

Dengaroth · Post by **Dengaroth** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:11 am

Shizoku wrote:QUOTE (Shizoku @ Sep 18 2006, 09:23 AM) Their miners bring in like 3500 and cost 5k. To kill a miner is a severe kick in the balls.

Of course, given the combination of the miner being a smallrip receiver, the faction's 30% rip time bonus and the TF scouts carrying plasgens which deal damage independent of your speed (unlike any other scout), it's virtually impossible to solo an initially undefended TF miner (unless you can do it in < 10 seconds, implying SFs).

Lykourgos wrote:QUOTE (Lykourgos @ Sep 18 2006, 10:08 AM) Slow speed (meaning slow cons and difficulty getting around, and that miners can't run so well and take a while bringing a load in, and that you can't remote mine well at all).

...compensated by:

1) boosters on scouts (which are more like lt figs anyway)
2) unrammable cons that plant with virtually no setup time at all
3) virtually zero time miners spend at the rock (IC miner spends 90 seconds, Giga miner spends 110 seconds, TF spends 25 seconds) (which means that as long as there's an offload in the same sector, your mining will actually be faster)
4) more fuel on boosting ships

Lykourgos wrote:QUOTE (Lykourgos @ Sep 18 2006, 10:08 AM) Slow research times, meaning you can't just get enh cons and solve the first problem, and that the opposing team has an opportunity to rape your economy/techbase before your tech is up. Those scouts don't really bomber d very well.

You are, of course, neglecting the whole "dogfighting bombers" aspect.

Lykourgos wrote:QUOTE (Lykourgos @ Sep 18 2006, 10:08 AM) No prox, no caltrops.

Instead you have towers that:

-shoot down missiles no problem
-can't be taken out by res1 at all
-rape a small taskforce of ships without any trouble when used in pairs/quadruples

and plasgens that are actually > prox, because you can't avoid/reduce the damage received by slowing down/stopping.

"but you can shoot the plasgen"... of course - too bad you then won't be killing the ship that dropped it, which will a) drop another one

do whatever it wanted to do in the first place, unobstructed

Lykourgos wrote:QUOTE (Lykourgos @ Sep 18 2006, 10:08 AM) Bombers that can fail due to stupidity on the turrets' part.

I can't believe you're actually listing the TF bombers as a weakness.

Mastametz · Post by **Mastametz** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:19 am

TF bombers suck for killing bases.
TF only gets scouts (however awesome) to start with, and no prox, so very vulnerable to bomb rush.
Thus - a defensive bomber.