XRM Antibase Missiles

apochboi · Post by **apochboi** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 6:58 pm

Okay well, we are pretty much finished with the next release of the community core. One of the things we have been discussing internally and which we all have different views on of course is XRM antibase missiles. Now i was going to start a poll, but to be honest i'd rather have a discussion.

Can we (the ccdev team) Please have some sensible ideas on what to do with this peice of "push button to win" tech.

Any thread derails will be deleted.

Edit: I forgot my own stance on it.

My own personal feelings is, it should be nuked and removed never to return.

Kltplzyxm · Post by **Kltplzyxm** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:04 pm

What about nerfing the distance so that it's just 2.5km before it's effective... maybe even 2k. 3.5km is pretty easy to nail any base anything given 8 bombers, but maybe not when you have to get a little closer somewhere that it feels like you actually have a chance as a defender.

Frooster · Post by **Frooster** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:14 pm

Imho XRM get very powerful in conjunction with tp2, without it you can still camp alephs/bases.
Would it be possible not to change XRM but to limit the energy of a tp2 probe, so only a limited number of ships can rip to the tp2 (with bbrs using up much more energy than figs or scouts). That way it would require more skill (multiple nans for limited bbrs, multiple drop, multiple rips,...) than just dropping it. Or could you limit the energy of small rips only?

Dark_Sponge · Post by **Dark_Sponge** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:15 pm

Frooster wrote:QUOTE (Frooster @ Jul 1 2008, 12:14 PM) Would it be possible...to limit the energy of a tp2 probe, so only a limited number of ships can rip to the tp2 (with bbrs using up much more energy than figs or scouts)

I'd like to see more options for teleport probes as well.
Control over how much energy they have & whether they are smallrip or largerip would be nice.
Unfortunately I think these would require code changes.

Mr. Kltplzyxm wrote:QUOTE (Mr. Kltplzyxm @ Jul 1 2008, 12:04 PM) What about nerfing the distance so that it's just 2.5km before it's effective... maybe even 2k. 3.5km is pretty easy to nail any base anything given 8 bombers, but maybe not when you have to get a little closer somewhere that it feels like you actually have a chance as a defender.

That sounds good, maybe 2.5k range plus a little less damage.

Death3D · Post by **Death3D** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:40 pm

How about lowering launch speed drastically but incrementing lifespan, so that range remains more or less the same, but it gives the D a tad more time to get to where the bombers have ripped to and start smashing a few by making the bombers have to get up to an adequate speed before starting to launch.

It also makes it be a little more awareness dependant (bomber pilots must start moving at the base before clicking, etc).

Edit: Maybe make XRM racks be extra heavy to make the speed-up process even more slow, without hampering regular hvy bombers bombing.

KofiMan · Post by **KofiMan** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:41 pm

Charge $$$$ per missile. 2/ Rack, perk damage, slightly nerf range.

This way they'll be useful for things other than TP2, such as blowing teles.

takingarms1 · Post by **takingarms1** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:51 pm

The issue with XRM is that you're always going to have a balance problem when the numbers get high enough. It doesnt matter how badly you nerf it, so long as the team has enough people on it, xrm will be uber. Most of the nerfs proposed, like tp2 energy, don't really address this problem, since it's trivial to carry more tp2 probes (or even deploy more tp2 scouts). Nerfs to weapon strength only increase number of people necessary to make xrm viable. It might move xrm from being viable in 30 vs 30 games but it would still be a win button once the numbers were right. While galv suffers from similar scaling issues, galv can't kill tech bases and so that provides some balance.

The cost per unit nerf is not a half bad idea, because no matter how large your team is, you still have to live within a 4 miner economy. If your team had money enough though, it would still be a win button.

It seems to me that the best way to deal with it is to just remove it. If sup needs a perk after that (and it probably will), I think the best perk would be some kind of tp2 perk (more energy? less delay before people can rip? etc). Then your regular or hvy bomber run would have a better chance of succeeding without having to use xrm cheese.

Kltplzyxm · Post by **Kltplzyxm** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 7:59 pm

I'm on the "Remove XRM" side but am going to play devils advocate a little more.

Costs per XRM is always possible. A problem with that is that any team can rip in 1 bbr + 15 nans and blow it away at 3.5K provided the defenders cannot rally enough to spike the bomber.

Another possibility is to nerf XRM damage and/or slow the missiles down so you have a chance to shoot them. Basically you would still require large numbers of bbrs to do the task (more than 10) and it will take them some time to kill the base off.

I'll reiterate that the problem with XRM is that the defending team has no chance of stopping it and I'm looking for a way that they might be able to.

Frooster · Post by **Frooster** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:07 pm

TakingArms wrote:QUOTE (TakingArms @ Jul 1 2008, 09:51 PM) Most of the nerfs proposed, like tp2 energy, don't really address this problem, since it's trivial to carry more tp2 probes (or even deploy more tp2 scouts).

I don't think this would work. As far as I understood rip mechanics the ripcord receiver is selected when you hit the rip button. If the rip device dies, you won't rip to another available rip receiver, so you won't be able to rip to different tp2 probes as long as you cannot specify to which probe you rip.

Correct · Post by **Correct** » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:19 pm

$100 per rack and move missile damage GA to tac.