So admins ban stackers now?

[CronoDroid]

I antistack and I think my rank proves it. I also hate stacking in general (aside from when I command /wink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink.gif" />) but seriously,
when does it end and can it be called "the biggest problem Allegiance has had in it's last eight years"? I know that a huge amount of work has been done to curb stacking as opposed to other features and improvements (showing ranks, autobalance, AllegSkill, etc.) but like Bacon said, this community hasn't fallen apart yet and I don't think it will for a while, unless of course they do start wantonly banning random people for no reason.

Hint: Joining a Rix team on a stupid Imbal N/A 9/2.5 game roughly the same time a noob joined the other team should not constitute stacking.

Why didn't you go to a real game later in the day or earlier and ban a real stacker? It was a silly little game because the noob decided to launch on crazy settings before I got a word in edgeways and to compound that, the enemy team wasn't crap ANYWAY. In fact, they were on par or even better than our team, I wouldn't call a team with aarm, Drizzo, and even Apoch along with a bunch of other dudes "crap", it was quite solid. On the other hand, if you're gonna ban people for joining Rix on Out9, like I said before, will you ban people for joining IC over Giga on Star? Rix instead of Giga? Not joining Nix or TF?

The reason I bring up this single incident that will probably have no bearing on the future is that the administration has shown their actions to be jokelike and stupid. Banning stackers from a big main game Pro Commander vs Voob Commander, sure, you've proven your point, stack and get whacked. Banning Beer from a @#(!ty little 9/2.5 was that just mindless craziness as your opening move in this War Against Stack is, well, crazy.

My point: If the admins didn't know how to act in that situation, then they don't know how to act in a real situation involving real stacking, and this new policy on banning stackers cannot be taken seriously/supported in any shape or form.

-----

For the people who weren't there, please, shut up, because Beer's ban was COMPLETELY unwarranted and stacking was NOT EVEN APPLICABLE in that situation. Unless of course the definition of stacking is now:

1. Joining a team when the other team is equal in skill level.

I didn't think so.

QUOTE The logs:

03/23/08 07:18:41: +Tiger@HQ (all): ugh $#@!ing stackers piss me off. I swear, the next person I see stacking is going to get it.
03/23/08 07:18:43: Kite_Geek@SRM (all): hmmm
03/23/08 07:18:44: maverickk@Belt (all): which team should i join?
03/23/08 07:18:47: ducc@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): I'll be on your turret in a few seconds.
03/23/08 07:18:56: Jules@SysX (Destroyer Thyme): lol doesnt listen
03/23/08 07:19:03: Kite_Geek@SRM (all): O,O@Tiger
03/23/08 07:19:04: Kite_Geek@SRM (all): Retreat!
03/23/08 07:19:08: maverickk@Belt (all): Heh, heh, heh...
03/23/08 07:19:09: Kite_Geek@SRM (all): LOL
03/23/08 07:19:10: Necrotic@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): we dont have skyrip yet?
03/23/08 07:19:10: Saxy37@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): i just podded their whole team twice
03/23/08 07:19:10: Kite_Geek@SRM (all): /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
03/23/08 07:19:24: CronoDroid@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): Kill midhi please
03/23/08 07:19:29: HQ (Destroyer Thyme): maverickk@Belt has joined your team.
03/23/08 07:19:30: ducc@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): We gonna have a bomber going soon?
03/23/08 07:19:33: maverickk@Belt (all): ok i'm blue
03/23/08 07:19:35: maverickk@Belt (all): to avoid stack
03/23/08 07:19:37: HQ (Destroyer Thyme): PinkViper has left Team 1.
03/23/08 07:19:44: maverickk@Belt (all): Go Go Go!
03/23/08 07:19:48: CronoDroid@Dreg (all): Stack or not
03/23/08 07:19:50: CronoDroid@Dreg (all): Rix Dests
03/23/08 07:19:51: CronoDroid@Dreg (all): Pwn
03/23/08 07:19:56: Kite_Geek@SRM (all): I am NOAT to avoid... I am not sure
03/23/08 07:19:56: maverickk@Belt (all): Affirmative!
03/23/08 07:19:59: Lykourgos@XT (all): you don't have rix dests yet silly
03/23/08 07:20:03: CronoDroid@Dreg (muhyo@Dreg): Affirmative.
03/23/08 07:20:05: Lykourgos@XT (all): your econ is not yet that powerful padawan
03/23/08 07:20:06: Saxy37@Dreg (all): we have lancer3
03/23/08 07:20:10: Lykourgos@XT (all): oh
03/23/08 07:20:11: Saxy37@Dreg (all): and i just podded their entire team twice
03/23/08 07:20:13: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): orders?
03/23/08 07:20:13: PinkViper (all): OUT9
03/23/08 07:20:15: PinkViper (all): duh
03/23/08 07:20:15: CronoDroid@Dreg (all): Rix dests with PW gas
03/23/08 07:20:15: ducc@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): lol they jumped on them quick
03/23/08 07:20:15: Lykourgos@XT (all): somebody turned on out9
03/23/08 07:20:18: Lykourgos@XT (all): on the $#@!ing main server
03/23/08 07:20:18: Kite_Geek@SRM (all): lol
03/23/08 07:20:22: Lykourgos@XT (all): on saturday afternoon
03/23/08 07:20:23: BEER@Dreg (all): yea but what about the dest?
03/23/08 07:20:24: Necrotic@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): we dont have skyrip yet then?
03/23/08 07:20:24: Kite_Geek@SRM (all): LMAO@Pinky
03/23/08 07:20:28: Lykourgos@XT (all): filmore you are a $#@!ing retard
03/23/08 07:20:30: CronoDroid@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): We have skyrip
03/23/08 07:20:32: DrBeginner@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): recharging
03/23/08 07:20:40: Kite_Geek@SRM (all): lol
03/23/08 07:20:41: Kite_Geek@SRM (all): Nice work.
03/23/08 07:20:47: .Teleport452 (Destroyer Thyme): New constructor requesting asteroid.
03/23/08 07:20:47: Necrotic@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): why didnt we load up skyrip on cruiser?
03/23/08 07:20:48: DrBeginner@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): friing now.
03/23/08 07:20:49: .Refinery453 (Destroyer Thyme): New constructor requesting asteroid.
03/23/08 07:20:49: Lykourgos@XT (all): and he goes gt too
03/23/08 07:20:51: CronoDroid@Dreg (.Teleport452): build a1912 in Bragi
03/23/08 07:20:51: .Teleport452 (CronoDroid@Dreg): Affirmative.
03/23/08 07:20:51: Lykourgos@XT (all): what the hell
03/23/08 07:20:55: Necrotic@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): its sooo much better
03/23/08 07:20:56: CronoDroid@Dreg (.Teleport452): build a5388 in Bragi
03/23/08 07:20:56: .Teleport452 (CronoDroid@Dreg): Affirmative.
03/23/08 07:20:58: Lykourgos@XT (all): this should be bannable
03/23/08 07:21:00: caveman@SysX (Destroyer Thyme): Nice work.
03/23/08 07:21:00: HQ (Destroyer Thyme): SouthPaw@PK has left Team 1.
03/23/08 07:21:00: Kite_Geek@SRM (all): Danger.
03/23/08 07:21:03: steve29@Belt (all): kite get warpcore up
03/23/08 07:21:04: HQ (Destroyer Thyme): cashto@Dreg has joined Team 1.
03/23/08 07:21:05: CronoDroid@Dreg (.Refinery453): build a5802 in Tathlum
03/23/08 07:21:05: .Refinery453 (CronoDroid@Dreg): Affirmative.
03/23/08 07:21:05: +BlackViper@Zone (Destroyer Thyme): histroy
03/23/08 07:21:08: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): hwat shuld i do?
03/23/08 07:21:09: muhyo@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): eyed
03/23/08 07:21:09: Kite_Geek@SRM (all): lol
03/23/08 07:21:10: Kite_Geek@SRM (all): Ahhh Yeah!
03/23/08 07:21:12: CobaltRed@Dreg(0) (command): where do we need prox?
03/23/08 07:21:14: Necrotic@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): cruiser is eyed
03/23/08 07:21:25: CronoDroid@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): kill the sup already
03/23/08 07:21:25: HQ (all): Destroyer Thyme has destroyed Team 1's Supremacy (Adv).
03/23/08 07:21:30: muhyo@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): 2.7K to Louhi
03/23/08 07:21:34: HQ (Destroyer Thyme): PinkViper has joined Team 1.
03/23/08 07:21:40: CronoDroid@Dreg (+BlackViper@Zone): Affirmative.
03/23/08 07:21:46: muhyo@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): lol
03/23/08 07:21:47: CronoDroid@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): Spliffy
03/23/08 07:21:49: Saxy37@Dreg (.Teleport452): goto Mercor
03/23/08 07:21:49: CronoDroid@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): Corvette?
03/23/08 07:21:52: CronoDroid@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): When we have dests?
03/23/08 07:21:56: Jules@SysX (Destroyer Thyme): get an ass ship out
03/23/08 07:22:00: CronoDroid@Dreg (spliffy@Dreg): Affirmative.
03/23/08 07:22:01: CronoDroid@Dreg (.Teleport452): build a9160 in Mercor
03/23/08 07:22:01: .Teleport452 (CronoDroid@Dreg): Affirmative.
03/23/08 07:22:03: syla@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): kass?
03/23/08 07:22:03: DrBeginner@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): home.
03/23/08 07:22:06: HQ (Destroyer Thyme): rorails has joined Team 1.
03/23/08 07:22:07: Jules@SysX (Destroyer Thyme): so we can rip to eleesh after
03/23/08 07:22:08: DrBeginner@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): in kass
03/23/08 07:22:10: CronoDroid@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): Call for a homerip
03/23/08 07:22:13: Necrotic@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): Mrm Zaus? is that anti ship or something?
03/23/08 07:22:13: CronoDroid@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): I'll get ass
03/23/08 07:22:20: HQ (Destroyer Thyme): Zarbal(0) has joined Team 1.
03/23/08 07:22:20: HQ (Destroyer Thyme): Lykourgos@XT has joined your team.
03/23/08 07:22:20: syla@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): i think so
03/23/08 07:22:22: CronoDroid@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): If you need a homerip
03/23/08 07:22:23: HQ (Destroyer Thyme): BEER@Dreg has joined your team.
03/23/08 07:22:23: CronoDroid@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): Call for it
03/23/08 07:22:25: CronoDroid@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): Lyko
03/23/08 07:22:27: CronoDroid@Dreg (Destroyer Thyme): It's imbal NA
03/23/08 07:22:28: +Tiger@HQ (all): I don't $#@!ing believe it
03/23/08 07:22:31: +Tiger@HQ (all): the moment yellow gets a player
03/23/08 07:22:33: +Tiger@HQ (all): players stack blue
03/23/08 07:22:35: History@ACE (Destroyer Thyme): Attack constructor.
03/23/08 07:22:37: Necrotic@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): wtf
03/23/08 07:22:39: +Tiger@HQ (all): What the hell is wrong with people in this game!!!!
03/23/08 07:22:41: +Tiger@HQ (all): Seriously
03/23/08 07:22:41: Saxy37@Dreg (all): hey tiger, imbalance is N/A
03/23/08 07:22:41: .Refinery453 (Destroyer Thyme): Finished building Refinery
03/23/08 07:22:42: Lykourgos@XT (all): check imbal
03/23/08 07:22:42: HQ (Destroyer Thyme): BlueC@Belt has joined Team 1.
03/23/08 07:22:44: Necrotic@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): our driver is drunk
03/23/08 07:22:45: Lykourgos@XT (all): and who has gc
03/23/08 07:22:45: Tumbleweed@Dreg (all): outrageous money
03/23/08 07:22:46: Tumbleweed@Dreg (all): +rix
03/23/08 07:22:48: CronoDroid@Dreg (speedey61@Belt(4)): Affirmative.
03/23/08 07:22:49: Tumbleweed@Dreg (all): /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />
03/23/08 07:22:49: +Tiger@HQ (all): that's it. I'm not goign to take it any more.
03/23/08 07:22:53: steve29@Belt (all): your warpcorelike bsg core up for awhile it dispear
03/23/08 07:22:54: speedey61@Belt(4) (Destroyer Thyme): I need turret gunners NOW!
03/23/08 07:22:56: CronoDroid@Dreg (Lykourgos@XT): Affirmative.
03/23/08 07:22:57: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): I'll be on your turret in a few seconds.
03/23/08 07:23:01: +Tiger@HQ (all): Beer, enjoy your stacking out of the game
03/23/08 07:23:03: speedey61@Belt(4) (Destroyer Thyme): Affirmative!
03/23/08 07:23:03: DeathHo@Dreg (all): they only want to win at all costs and don't care about fair
03/23/08 07:23:05: CronoDroid@Dreg (DrBeginner@Belt): Affirmative.
03/23/08 07:23:06: Chief5326 (Destroyer Thyme): ff on?
03/23/08 07:23:09: speedey61@Belt(4) (Destroyer Thyme): I need turret gunners NOW!
03/23/08 07:23:11: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): I'll be on your turret in a few seconds.
03/23/08 07:23:12: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): I'll be on your turret in a few seconds.
03/23/08 07:23:12: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): I'll be on your turret in a few seconds.
03/23/08 07:23:12: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): I'll be on your turret in a few seconds.
03/23/08 07:23:12: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): I'll be on your turret in a few seconds.
03/23/08 07:23:13: Necrotic@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): lol
03/23/08 07:23:14: speedey61@Belt(4) (Destroyer Thyme): Affirmative!
03/23/08 07:23:14: CronoDroid@Dreg (all): I don't think you could call this a real game
03/23/08 07:23:17: HQ (Destroyer Thyme): Tumbleweed@Dreg has joined Team 1.
03/23/08 07:23:18: CronoDroid@Dreg (all): It's out9
03/23/08 07:23:20: DeathHo@Dreg (all): in real life the other way around since people know who they are
03/23/08 07:23:22: ducc@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): Yee-haaaaaw!
03/23/08 07:23:25: Saxy37@Dreg (all): tiger banning ppl from this game would be an abuse of your power
03/23/08 07:23:25: ogorass@Belt (all): Hey, wassup?
03/23/08 07:23:27: Lykourgos@XT (all): i think you should ban the person with gc myself
03/23/08 07:23:27: +Tiger@HQ (all): I don't care. I'm sick of stacking and I'm going to do what I can to put an end to it
03/23/08 07:23:30: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): I'll be on your turret in a few seconds.
03/23/08 07:23:32: +Tiger@HQ (all): $#@! abuse of power
03/23/08 07:23:33: DeathHo@Dreg (all): Yee-haaaaaw!
03/23/08 07:23:35: DeathHo@Dreg (all): Thanks
03/23/08 07:23:35: ogorass@Belt (all): Ahhh Yeah!
03/23/08 07:23:36: +Tiger@HQ (all): Beer stacked. Plain and simple.
03/23/08 07:23:37: speedey61@Belt(4) (Destroyer Thyme): Affirmative!
03/23/08 07:23:38: +Tiger@HQ (all): He's out.
03/23/08 07:23:40: speedey61@Belt(4) (Destroyer Thyme): I need turret gunners NOW!
03/23/08 07:23:42: Saxy37@Dreg (all): tiger imbalance is n/a
03/23/08 07:23:42: Saxy37@Dreg (all): Read the chat!
03/23/08 07:23:46: ogorass@Belt (all): Tiger on a prowl.
03/23/08 07:23:47: +Tiger@HQ (all): I don't care about game settings
03/23/08 07:23:49: Lykourgos@XT (all): really tiger
03/23/08 07:23:49: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): i'm right by the base
03/23/08 07:23:51: ogorass@Belt (all): Rawr.
03/23/08 07:23:53: syla@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): speedy hit buy
03/23/08 07:23:55: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): tryin to get in
03/23/08 07:23:55: Lykourgos@XT (all): you think this is the fault of the people on blue
03/23/08 07:23:57: Lykourgos@XT (all): and not the person with gc
03/23/08 07:23:58: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): i suck at this lol
03/23/08 07:23:58: steve29@Belt (all): someone got ban for 10 weeks for stacking
03/23/08 07:23:59: CronoDroid@Dreg (+Clay_Pigeon@Belt): Affirmative.
03/23/08 07:24:01: +Tiger@HQ (all): No, I think this is Beer's fault
03/23/08 07:24:03: speedey61@Belt(4) (Destroyer Thyme): oops i cant have turrets
03/23/08 07:24:04: +Tiger@HQ (all): so he's gone.
03/23/08 07:24:06: speedey61@Belt(4) (Destroyer Thyme): LOL
03/23/08 07:24:07: Saxy37@Dreg (all): tiger you are being ridiculous
03/23/08 07:24:08: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): stupid autopilot
03/23/08 07:24:11: maverickk@Belt (Destroyer Thyme): omfh
03/23/08 07:24:11: +Tiger@HQ (all): Saxy, is it your fault too?[/quote]

Imbal N/A. Beer and Lyko were on at the same time as the noob was and I accepted them at the same time the noob was accepted. SO IT WASN'T A CASE OF WAITING FOR A NOOB TO JOIN AND THEN STACKING THE ENEMY TEAM.

[Grimmwolf_GB]

In theory, it might be a good idea to ban stackers to teach them not to do it. In the real world however it is a very bad idea.
- Stacking is a matter of timing, you cannot judge a stack event afterwards, not without properly reviewing every single join event.
- HELO is not an accurate representation of skill, therefor, stacking can also occur, when both teams are even.
- Stacking is subjective. (because HELO does not work) If I were to join a team nowadays, I could be also called a stacker, because I don't know the more recent voobs/vets and might be joining the "wrong" team by accident.
- ATM only the US time zones are covered, that means EU/asian time players are free to stack as they want, because there is no-one around to judge them. Isn't the point of a set of rules, that it can be applied to every person, in the same way?
- There is no written rule against stacking anywhere.
- There was no warning.

I strongly disagree with the idea and implementation.

[Adept]

Sometimes it's absolutely clear to everyone that a game is stacked.

In those cases there's no point to come crying how subjective it is. Stacking ruins games, I'm glad if the more outrageous cases will result in bans. /cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="cool.gif" />

[CronoDroid]

Let me point out a few tidbits from the logs:

03/23/08 07:18:41: +Tiger@HQ (all): ugh $#@!ing stackers piss me off. I swear, the next person I see stacking is going to get it.

^^Sorry, but if you're implementing a new policy change, it'd be helpful to actually make people aware of it instead of surprising a random player with it. Also the theatrics should be avoided. Nobody took you seriously, we were all like "Hmm, Tiger trying to scare stackers, woot woot". Honestly, everyone thought you were joking. Bad way to introduce a new policy. It'd be like if the US President made a speech and said "Yo rich white peeps. Slavery's back in. Grab your minority of choice and have fun."

No warning, nothing. Just "Yo, I'm feeling pissed off probably because Dreg got raped in the ZG and have decided to ban someone for my amusement. Oops, you joined Rix on an Out9 game, DIE". Because this is essentially what happened. I'm not going to speculate about a conspiracy theory involving Beer "making a matyr of himself" to discourage stacking because frankly, I don't know what was going through your mind at the time. But either way, this was shocking springing it on the community all of a sudden. You decided to hit AllegSkill with a bucketload of drama when from what Baker had been saying on IRC and TS it was done and then decided to ban stackers instead of using a new, exciting system that seems solid, and was completed to boot.

Awesomesauce.

[Loriana]

wow looks like i've missed something...

[CronoDroid]

QUOTE (Adept @ Mar 23 2008, 10:08 PM) In those cases there's no point to come crying how subjective it is. Stacking ruins games, I'm glad if the more outrageous cases will result in bans. /cool.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="cool.gif" />

So they're starting with the stupid games first and working their way up to SGs, then?

[Cadillac]

Bad co-incidence turns nasty /sad.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":sad:" border="0" alt="sad.gif" />

[Gandalf2]

a) stacking is bad, but

b) the logs show the ban was un-justified. It was a stupid game - if anyone should've been banned it was whoever had GC

c) I really, really do not appreciate snarky/authoritative responses from the admins. Treat the community with respect please.

[CronoDroid]

Check the banlist. Defiance banned for five days for stacking??

I'll leave the rest to your fertile imaginations.

[madpeople]

logic...

(1): imbal is N/A -> (2): anyone can join any team at any time.
from (2) -> (3): one does not need to wait for one person to join team A for you to join team B

(4): due to (3) one cannot wait for a player to join a team to allow you to join the other team as you are free to join any team at any point [see: (2)]

(5): joining a team immediately after someone joins the other team can only be a coincidence due to (4)

conclusion: it makes no sense to say a player waited for someone to join the other team so they could join a team when imbal is NA.
-> that ban was unjustifiable.

i was approving of the whole ban stackers thing, but they do need to be justifiable bans on the right people.
arbitrary bans are bad.

though there is no point in arguing this or trying to explain as I and others [those making the ranking system] have already found that TE refuses to try and see any other point of view other than his own.
TE could do with trying to be more considerate of other people's opinions and being a little more flexible. it would mean less people get pissed off, and things would be more productive.
no, this wasn't meant to insult TE, i sincerely hope it helps TE to see his flaws and address them (so he becomes a better person because of it - yay for self improvement /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />)