DMX9 A core like no other core.

[Evincar]

tip: 98% of the alleg playerbase can't fly a mk4 level craft without lagging beyond playability in a dm environment

[apochboi]

Do not design a core unless you know the games limitations, and are fluent in ICE.

Threads like these are pointless.

[FireDart]

QUOTE (Grimmwolf_GB @ Mar 5 2008, 08:39 AM) Can a core withstand that level of internal drama? Will the servers survive it?

LOL great question. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" /> Can it?

QUOTE (Guivre @ Mar 5 2008, 11:05 AM) An idea that's been floating in my head...

Give Rixians some form of Railgun option for their missile slot that uses up alot of ammo but puts out alot of damage as well. You should probably restrict this to either gunships and advanced fighters and above.

Or instead of using the missile slot, maybe uses the Galv slot, and the advanced form of the gun should be able to take out light bases, and other Galvable bases.

Rixian GS should have a mine slot, and amount of combat pods it can carry should be increased to say, 5/slot.

And a word to the wise. I've seen alot of people lately spamming tech bases and recon bases to try to prevent the other side from reaching assault level tech, or preventing them from reaching certain techbases (be it tac, sup, exp, whatever) This could easily be abused with a 1 second con build time, 700+MPS speed, and 1 second plant time. You might want to come up with some way to avoid this.

I'm willing to bounce some ideas off of you if you want, although I'll expect a Rixian scout named after my Lafayette hider /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

Cool idea about the railgun, sadly this core will be DM based. The base killingstuff will be nerffed to damage nothing.

QUOTE (Sushi @ Mar 5 2008, 11:51 AM) If you are going to do instant research, why even have techbases? Make everything garr tech!

If that would clutter things too much, couldn't you just make it so tech can build on any rock?

As far as the concept goes in general... I'll reserve judgment until there is something playable to try.

That is a great idea, that will avoid con spam rushing to just the tech roids. And, also allow you to build everything in one sector and a base in the middle for the DM.

QUOTE (Evincar @ Mar 5 2008, 12:07 PM) tip: 98% of the alleg playerbase can't fly a mk4 level craft without lagging beyond playability in a dm environment

Thank you for this information. I did not realize this at all, and it would be silly to make this where nearly everyone laggs out. So no MK4 type ships will be in this core.

Now to think of it, instead of new major changes and ideas for ships... I will keep them the same as the most used core now. (DN in this case) So that what you learn to do well in DMX9 you can then transfer it to a normal game when needed. Evincar thank you again for that insight.

QUOTE (apochboi @ Mar 5 2008, 12:15 PM) Do not design a core unless you know the games limitations, and are fluent in ICE.

Threads like these are pointless.

Actually they could be if no one was showing some interest. I do make it clear I am new to ICE and need help, am open to it. And, willing to share any part of the help with anyone. I mean I don't care of say just for example only: Evincar wants to make the core as he is an ICE wizard, and we test the core out to get the kinks out, and I gather field information when it goes live.

Or, say someone who knows ICE, again only for example: Apoch, decides to help me host my own game on the beta server so I am able to learn the games limits. I can not learn if I can not access the finished core I have tweaked.



What will help me learn ICE? Being able to host my own game on the Beta server. I can get onto it, have seen Apochs core on it and tested it with him. Now I would like to try this.

[FireDart]

CORE IDEA SHIFT/CHANGE....

To insure a core that 98% of the people playing can play, thanks to Evincar pointing out an important issue of MK4 ships lagging people. These ships will not be included in this core.

The core will be based on the DN core mainly it is the most played core, and features factions most people like.

What would change:

From the information posted above (Evincar's, Sushi's and Apochs)....

Correct I do not know ICE. It is not hard to use, but I can see that it is also a pretty powerful tool.

So I will reduce cost of everything to 1 credit. Reduce the research time to 1 second for everything.

Make base hulls stronger, as well as shields on bases.

Nerf all Anti Base tech... So it can not damage things. Make it so galvs can't damage non ship hulls.

Make starting money higher (equal for all factions)

Ships other than rename them, and make tiny tweaks to Scouts, Bbrs, and Caps, will leave all other ships as they are in the DN core.

If it can be done, tech bases will be buildable on ANY roid. So that you can use your home sector for all your needs. And, make a base in the middle.... Not sure if I can limit the number of bases like miners can be, and such now. So BASE spam does not happen as badly. Ten bases is much better than 53 of them for one team.

Miner and Con speed while sounded fun before... A more modest 300MPS will be the new speed limit for these. They will still be full TP, as will cons. Both will finction as pod p/u as well.

ALL bases will be full TP, so you would not need to make a TP only.

Probes will be given a life of 1 second same with towersm and caltrops if these are best left in the game. Items that normally ruin a DM game make a conquest all that much more fun.

The idea behind this change is simple, I want to play more DM games, it also seems other people would like to as well. So, OK I started out ahead of my ability. I posted what I had in mind, and from feedback from all of you, was able to realize that if I kept to my original idea... Apoch would be correct. This would be a pointless idea, and post.

Now knowing I would use the DN core, and change much less to it.... Well within my limited skills using ICE, the next thing will be getting this core ready to be hosted. Then I could host it myself on the Beta server, and test the idea out. Then if people are willing to also test it on the Beta server with me, we can hammer out the little details.

I do not want to end up with a core where some things work, and others do not. I know that is hard to avoid fully, and this is why I would use a solid, or pretty solid core now like DN, and only make simple changes to mostly non game physics items.

Thanks for this great input all of you. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[madpeople]

why low cost + fast research?

why not just make everyone start with everything?

[Adept]

A DM core I could actually see a use for, would be one where one would get advanced / heavy versions of every small ship right off the bat, with all the tech available. That would be useful for experimenting and getting familiar with endgame tech.

A cheese core with souped up ships that are different from the regular cores... What's the point? At least for me a DM is never an end to itself, but rather training/warmup for the real games.

[apochboi]

QUOTE reduce research time to 1 second for everything[/quote]

I couldn't be bothered reading the whole lot, this will crash a server. Rixian have a 0.1 research modifyer, combine that with 1second research time, your server will crash and burn, I should know, I've done it before.

[Dangeruss]

good luck with both the core and the ivf

[FireDart]

QUOTE (madpeople @ Mar 5 2008, 02:08 PM) why low cost + fast research?

why not just make everyone start with everything?

O,o Can this be done in ICE. With out killing a server? If so this would be the best possible option I feel.
Someone else mentioned this, however I was thinking more cheese core before, and wanted people to see the level up changes.

At this point, I do not care about that. I mean we will see it in the normal DN core. MP, if you know how to host your own game on the betta lobby, please PM me with the details on how this can be done. I tried to follow the FAZ stuff, I can get my server up for a LAN type game it seems, and can not locate my game. Even after 2 minutes of waiting for it to find it. So I did something wrong. I can get into the beta lobby and when Apoch and I have the same warpcore we can test it. So that part works. I get no error outs, and such to make this more of a mess so far.

If this is possible, this will be how DMX9 core will be done. Avoiding wasted time.

QUOTE (Adept @ Mar 5 2008, 09:46 PM) A DM core I could actually see a use for, would be one where one would get advanced / heavy versions of every small ship right off the bat, with all the tech available. That would be useful for experimenting and getting familiar with endgame tech.

A cheese core with souped up ships that are different from the regular cores... What's the point? At least for me a DM is never an end to itself, but rather training/warmup for the real games.

I agree with you on this 100%. The original idea I had was pointless, I mean look at the cheese cores we have now... They are sort of dead ends sadly.
Once I found out MK4 ships fail to work for most people... I realized that my orginal idea failed before ever being created.

Then like you mention here, this CORE can be more or less warm up to real games. And, allow for people to be able to have more fun while learning skills they can use in a Conquest maingame or in a Squad Game.

QUOTE (apochboi @ Mar 5 2008, 11:01 PM) I couldn't be bothered reading the whole lot, this will crash a server. Rixian have a 0.1 research modifyer, combine that with 1second research time, your server will crash and burn, I should know, I've done it before.

Apoch, from the best of my knowledge if I host my core, and my core crashed my server (my PC), the worst that will happen is I get the dreaded Blue Screen of Death. At no time will my computer/server be damaged from a crash. The BSOD is the OS stopping all functions, and allowing someone to reset and or fix an issue.

So what if I make a change and I crash out. 3 minutes later I am back up and trying again. O,o Nothing different than I do now playing any game. If I come into a sector with several caltrops my 16MB graphics card fails to handle all of that number crunching. Actually people have told me that even with 512mb and more of graphics card memory they get the same odd things I get before they may crash out. Now they may not get BSOD, they may just drop to desktop as they had more ram, and graphic memory than I do... So the OS was able to shut down those items, without stopping the entire system.

So Apoch the big scary warnings I may end up with BSOD if I so much as look at ICE, let alone try to test some ideas out does not scare me. So I learn as you have had to learn... Tweaking setting A to level Z makes me crash... I will not do that again.

What you do not know is I used to program using BASIC, and unlike the simple, yet powerful ICE tool... I had to not only worry about making one little change.... I needed to change hundreds or thousands, or more lines of code to make one little tweak. So, if all that happens to me now is I get BSOD... I can only laugh, as it is annoying, not the end of the world.

So I will ask, Apoch you know how to host your own core. Can you please PM me the details, the file, the link to the correct posting of how to do this... So that I can maybe stop just posting ideas.... And, get my hands dirty trying them. And, if you can't help, or are not able to help for any reason...
Cool, I will still enjoy Warpcore, it is a fun core to me. Even if I get BSOD playing it, or any DM really. I have found workarounds to that issue whil in game, so it is not as annoying as when it started with the new R4 update.

QUOTE (Dangeruss @ Mar 6 2008, 01:28 AM) good luck with both the core and the ivf

Thanks man. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />


Now, from the cheese infested core idea I had at first.... We have transformed it into a realistic DM core based on the very nice, and popular DN core.

So far very little will be changed to the core. If we can start with all endgame tech and not require wasted time getting it... Without this crashing the server(s). I will do this.

The only changes to things in game will be: NOTHING removed. To avoid unexpected crashes. However, some things will need to be changed to avoid ruined DM games. And, or other issues like spamming things and such.

Probes will live for shorter times. Everyone I know HATES with a passion finding so many probes in a sector they lag out. Or are lagging so badly they can not play.

Caltrops/Towers - Instead of remove these items, not sure if they will crash the server if expected by the game engine.
They will live for 3 seconds only. Research times will be made to long to bother with also. They may have a silly cost also.

Miners/Cons - OK, 700MPS is insane now that I think about it. So I will make the Hit points higher than people will bother with trying to kill. As these count for kills in DM games, and people get annoyed by this, and it ruins otherwise good games.

If it can be done maybe make HE so low that miners wont leave base for it. If this will not crash the server of course. Items like Lux ships will not cost anything, so money really will not be needed. I want this to be pretty much no DEV needed to start the DM, so nothing will earn money, no paydays, or no credit paydays, and miners will not find HE.

Bases will be made to be none killable by nerfing the base killing tech. EMP shield missiles will be made to not affect base sheilds, and or base shields made to not drop. IF this does not kill a server.

Ships will be left as they are now in DN. Nothing will change to them, names and all will stay the way they are now. So that say a new player playing DM core, pops into the main game saying I want ship XYZ, and people dont say that is on RPS, or DMX9 only....

Pods - If used or left on for any reason... These will have a 1 second life span. Or of this will crash a server, then make them fly at 300MPS, and rip, as well as be full TP so that someone can rip to them, pick them up and rip back to base. Bases will become Full TP's so no need for extra TP only points will be needed.

If items can have a no cost set for them cool. The cost for all other non needed bases (if the game starts with everything) Garrison will be no cost a TP, and have a 30 second research time to avoid the the dreaded crashed server. Or even a one minute time. Now to avoid BASE SPAM, if these can be limited to a preset number, this would be great. If they can be seperate from miners as if someone picks zero miners then none can be made... O,o If not just leave them as is, and hope people dont base spam with them.

All other bases will cost a silly amount, as I can't stop the floating money from being found in a game ( I think. )

In the end this will be DN, made to be DM friendly no matter what settings are used while making a game. Yet, the ships will be the same as in the main game using DN, just all endgame tech and ships.

For those who KNOW ICE, can you let me know if this sounds like a better idea?

If this idea is the best, and it will work withing the games limits... COOL. I just need to have someone explain how to host my own game on the beta server. I looked at FAZ Dev stuff... O,o got all lost...

Here is what I am able to do now. I can get to the Beta lobby... I can get the LAN Game Server thing (I think it is for Lan Games) running fine - after 2 or more minutes it will not locate my game... I get no error out codes, nothinf locks up, and all seems to function fine.

I made my original core put it into my art file and tried to find it on the beta server... O,o can't of corse. I think beta uses the same art file as the one I use for playing with ASGS... So I don't know what I am doing wrong.

I can test with Apoch when we have the same Warcore he is working on... So I know I connect to the beta lobby and server.

If I can get up and running... These NEW much more realistic changes to make a DM core could be done in as little as a few days or so... I would not be making nearly as many changed to things as before, and even with my little knowledge of ICE. I can adjust base hulls, item costs, and nerf annoying things... And set all the endgame toys and tech in DN to start at that level.

That is not nearly as much as also tweaking every ship, and weapon, and such hoping I get it all just right... And, before you know it I can allow some people to test it with me.... Then poof, a core that is DN tweaked to make it DM friendly.

Imagine if this works as well as I think it might, we may start being able to also have Squad DM games to mix things up a bit. It would not be to replace the DN core, or the Conquest style games manily played. It is to enhance and offer another option to playing the game we all love so muh.

/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

PS all great information everyone. Thank you so much for posting, all of it has helped, and I hope you can see how it has helped. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />
Now, I want to be able to host my own game/core on beta for testing. So I can get to making this core a reality for all of us. /smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

[Guivre]

QUOTE (FireDart @ Mar 6 2008, 08:11 AM) Once I found out MK4 ships fail to work for most people... I realized that my orginal idea failed before ever being created.


If it can be done maybe make HE so low that miners wont leave base for it. If this will not crash the server of course. Items like Lux ships will not cost anything, so money really will not be needed. I want this to be pretty much no DEV needed to start the DM, so nothing will earn money, no paydays, or no credit paydays, and miners will not find HE.

Pods - If used or left on for any reason... These will have a 1 second life span. Or of this will crash a server, then make them fly at 300MPS, and rip, as well as be full TP so that someone can rip to them, pick them up and rip back to base. Bases will become Full TP's so no need for extra TP only points will be needed.

If items can have a no cost set for them cool. The cost for all other non needed bases (if the game starts with everything) Garrison will be no cost a TP, and have a 30 second research time to avoid the the dreaded crashed server. Or even a one minute time. Now to avoid BASE SPAM, if these can be limited to a preset number, this would be great. If they can be seperate from miners as if someone picks zero miners then none can be made... O,o If not just leave them as is, and hope people dont base spam with them.

Well...

1) MK4 ships are still workable, you just don't give them the same stats as the RPS core does. Tweak them a little to be a little bit better than the MK3 ships, but make the difference similar to the difference between a Giga Adv fighter vs a Giga Lux fighter.

2) I don't know if this works or not, but you could make all bases act as Spec mines, eliminates the need for miners completely. Also, you can set the max number of miners to 0 in the settings. This also prevents any caltrops/towers/asteroids/carriers/other stuff except for bases to be built.

3) I would just give all pods a 1 second rip time and make all bases a TP base. People can get back to base quickly, avoids hassle, keeps things simple, and again, you can just set the game to not allow pods in the settings, so this isn't that big of a deal IMO.

4) I know in some maps you start off with extra bases, what I don't know if that is map specific or not. Is it possible to just start with all tech bases?