ELO Formula

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:13 pm

Yes, that's a nice thing. Doesn't matter with defections or tags/tokens, other callsigns. I do like that. /mrgreen.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="mrgreen.gif" />

Hey wait a minute, that's what was ticking Terra off I believe.

`4

Now we're on the same side. /laugh.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":lol:" border="0" alt="laugh.gif" />

Terralthra · Post by **Terralthra** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:01 am

Er, no. What he just said is that if you are on the losing team, at all, you will lose the elo for the whole game, no matter how much time you spent there.

You will also gain the fractional Elo for the winning team, but it is naturally always a net loss.

As for what makes a grace period a bad idea? It gives stackers another tool to always join the winning team and thus artificially inflate their ranking. Right now, there's the teams to look at, and sometimes, but not always, you can tell which team is winning by who is on which team. Then there's the commanders, likewise. And there is TS, where you can sometimes hear chatter from both teams about who is winning or losing.

What you are talking about is giving anyone who never wants to lose about a 75% chance of being able to do so. Four minutes is plenty of time to see whether or not the team you joined is in general, winning or losing, and be right most of the time. Comebacks happen far less often, so it's likely that the team that is losing when you join is going to lose. Giving someone five minutes to see whether or not they're winning, with no penalty, combined with the ability to join the other team under a hider, would mean certain people would join one team, see if there's a chance for them to win, and stay if yes, and if not, bail and join the other team, and since they aren't penalized for bailing, their Elo would constantly rise artificially, as the team that they ended up being on was already winning without their skills added to them.

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:23 am

Maybe I misunderstood his post, let me illustate my confusion;

QUOTE Just it interject here. If you are clocked on both teams for any length of time (yes even less than 5 minutes) you will be counted as being on the losing team and lose the full ELO.[/quote]

p.s. hey kewl, you're on the faz dev team, awesome.

Terralthra · Post by **Terralthra** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:27 am

Well, his post is correct, but inaccurate. It doesn't matter if you are on both teams. If you are on the losing team, for any amount of time, you lose the full Elo. If you are on the winning team, you gain the fractional Elo. Hence, if you are on both teams, your rating changes by (-Elo + (time in game/game length) * Elo).

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:36 am

So I'm clear, you disagree with tmc's post above?

You prefer that if someone joins a game and see that there's no chance of winning in a fraction of a second, even if they joined the team that had a 30% chance of winning they should lose full elo?

I'm sorry Terra, it's completely stupid. /blink.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":o" border="0" alt="blink.gif" />

The concept makes zero sense at all to me.

"Hey look I jumped on a game, oh crap they have no research done at all, they've been playing two weeks straight and have only a garr in their home sector, every other sector is taken over by the enemy and their 3 adv techs, starbase, drydock, but hey, I should stay and try to win." -joe blow

This has nothing to do with stacking and everything to do with insanity.

Terralthra · Post by **Terralthra** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:41 am

Like I said, you make it 15 seconds, and take away the ability to join the other team, and I agree with both of you.

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:47 am

If they join the other team they lose no matter what.

Your primary concerns are stacking and cheating basically.

Cheating is not something we can do much about, that's something 'outside' any system. On the bright side; If they join the other team they lose no matter what.

Stacking then is your main concern as I understand it then...

Now how is it stacking if I join the team with a 40% chance to win, spend 5 minutes seeing the mess that is around and leave? (P.S. it's not stacking, but by your thought I should lose ~10 elo).

I see you've agreed to give players 15 seconds now to figure out if there's a hope in hell of winning... that's better then the 0 seconds we were working with from you before, so that's a good start... up it to a minute shall we?

/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Terralthra · Post by **Terralthra** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:04 am

jgbaxter wrote:QUOTE (jgbaxter @ Aug 27 2006, 02:47 PM) If they join the other team they lose no matter what.

Your primary concerns are stacking and cheating basically.

Cheating is not something we can do much about, that's something 'outside' any system. On the bright side; If they join the other team they lose no matter what.

Stacking then is your main concern as I understand it then...

Now how is it stacking if I join the team with a 40% chance to win, spend 5 minutes seeing the mess that is around and leave? (P.S. it's not stacking, but by your thought I should lose ~10 elo).

I see you've agreed to give players 15 seconds now to figure out if there's a hope in hell of winning... that's better then the 0 seconds we were working with from you before, so that's a good start... up it to a minute shall we?

/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

The way you want it, they do not lose if they join both teams.

It's not stacking until you use that knowledge of the game to join the winning team. Your five minute grace period gives everyone the opportunity to do just that.

jgbaxter · Post by **jgbaxter** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 5:19 am

QUOTE The way you want it, they do not lose if they join both teams.[/quote]Damn it, $#@!ing read the words; I NEVER SAID THAT.

_SRM_Strike700 wrote:QUOTE (_SRM_Strike700 @ Aug 26 2006, 08:39 PM) Just it interject here. If you are clocked on both teams for any length of time (yes even less than 5 minutes) you will be counted as being on the losing team and lose the full ELO.

I agree with that, scroll up if you missed it. Got it?

In closing my 5 minute grace period means that if they log out, switch their callsign/tag around, they can come back on the opposing side AND LOSE FULL ELO. /glare.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":glare:" border="0" alt="glare.gif" /> /tongue.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":P" border="0" alt="tongue.gif" />

Terralthra · Post by **Terralthra** » Sun Aug 27, 2006 6:03 am

So you want five free minutes to bail on a team that's losing, with no effect, except if you join the other team, where it would have the effect it has now?