QUOTE Drones no longer have to completely stop turning before entering (their forward speed is unchanged). This applies to constructors building on rocks and miners/cons/carriers docking at stations.[/quote]
This I fear is going to give Expansion a huge perk. Please rethink this option.
They know not what they vote for...
Poll question #1
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Ozricosis wrote:QUOTE (Ozricosis @ Sep 28 2007, 01:03 AM) They know not what they vote for...
That is so true. everyone thinks this is going to be a huge difference, when infact if people would play the beta they would know what kind of a difference it makes.
Who actually has a real opinion on this from in game observations? please tell!
All opinions i have seen so far are from people who are assuming the effects of this, and not judging from observations.
Please stop spreading trash rumors. We don't work hard so you guys can assume the results of something and then blow them way up when you have no idea how they actually work. This is quite retarded. /rolleyes.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":roll:" border="0" alt="rolleyes.gif" />
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Shizoku wrote:QUOTE (Shizoku @ Sep 28 2007, 01:48 AM) From what I've seen it does make killing a miner or conn next to a base considerably more difficult.
Well that's possibly more a nerf for exp in a way, since mostly ints are wheeling around the miner when it tries to dock... I suppose.
Personally I'm more concerned that all the options will pass, the way the votes are setup with the first choice being 'yes' will have a huge likelyhood that will be the option taken... in the future I hope the first choice in polls will be, 'don't ask me again'.
I had difficulty with questions #1 and #3 myself, as I was really sure how they'd effect the game and quite frankly I'd rather not have radical changes to gameplay.
n.b. I may not see a forum post replied to me or a pm sent to me for weeks and weeks...
In a little more measured response that YP's, I think people need to try it more. The change is subtle and should not be a 'radical' gameplay change. But that said it needs to be tested. Pilots with lots of experience killing miners need to chime in here as Shiz has done.
How big a change it is will really depend on the angle the miner is approaching. So in some situations there will not be a difference at all and in others there will be a difference. Personally I've noticed them docking a bit faster after a ram, maybe 3 or 4 seconds faster. In some cases that will mean the difference between a kill or not.
But to put things in perspective, what YP was trying to improve on was poor AI. Should we leave the AI poor and exploit it or improve the AI in small steps??? I'm for improving the AI. It is not like YP made them uber smart, he just made them do something a little closer to what we all do all the time when docking. Yes this will impact the ability to prevent a miner from docking. But they are pretty dumb at the moment. Should a single scout really be able to hold them up for so long?
Bottom line is we need more testing to tell if this is a 'game balance breaking' change or something that a small core 'tweak' can bring back into line, if even that is needed.
Dog
How big a change it is will really depend on the angle the miner is approaching. So in some situations there will not be a difference at all and in others there will be a difference. Personally I've noticed them docking a bit faster after a ram, maybe 3 or 4 seconds faster. In some cases that will mean the difference between a kill or not.
But to put things in perspective, what YP was trying to improve on was poor AI. Should we leave the AI poor and exploit it or improve the AI in small steps??? I'm for improving the AI. It is not like YP made them uber smart, he just made them do something a little closer to what we all do all the time when docking. Yes this will impact the ability to prevent a miner from docking. But they are pretty dumb at the moment. Should a single scout really be able to hold them up for so long?
Bottom line is we need more testing to tell if this is a 'game balance breaking' change or something that a small core 'tweak' can bring back into line, if even that is needed.
Dog
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Some cons like TF are already insanely hard to stop once they get to the rock this makes it worse. On miner AI you can inprove the broken parts like it will not go into a sector with enemys if there is not a dockable base under its teams control, but changeing how hard it is to kill the miner shifts the entire gamplay notiting how there really isnt a seriouse core that dosnt use miners
JG wtf? making it easyer to push cons is a nerf to exp? And anyway how often do miners die outside of a green door in a decent sized game?
If the core devs wanted to make miners easyer to kill for a faction they would pull out the docking lineup distance, and harder the inverse, this gameplay code change takes a @#(! on that
JG wtf? making it easyer to push cons is a nerf to exp? And anyway how often do miners die outside of a green door in a decent sized game?
If the core devs wanted to make miners easyer to kill for a faction they would pull out the docking lineup distance, and harder the inverse, this gameplay code change takes a @#(! on that
Beyond the clock tower.
I think it boils down to.
You should be killing miners/cons en route not relying on poor AI during what should be their last 5 or 10 seconds so you can 'confuse' them for upwards of 30 seconds (or more).
But depending on how big a difference it makes it will change balance a bit. Perhaps players might get used to the fact that cons/miners are less vulnerable now at the docking/planting stage and thus tactics will change to make sure you catch them earlier.
As I said I am for smarter AI. Why should a miner slowly have to aim its nose into the bay (while a scout constantly smacks its nose around) when it can just side thrust in and be done with it.
What miners are forced to do now would be akin to extending a wire collar (that enemies can shoot through) around base entrances that players would have to line up with before entering. And they would have to enter with their nose perfectly perpendicular to the plane of the docking bay.
We are just used to being able to 'smack them around'.
What we are missing is how much impact this change really has on game play. Do they dock 50% faster now? or only 5% faster? To cons take 50% less time to align for a plant or 5% less time. I think it is going to be closer to the 5% side of things but I've only tested with a single scout.
Good point though, how often are miners killed at green doors? probably less than cons being killed while trying to plant.
You should be killing miners/cons en route not relying on poor AI during what should be their last 5 or 10 seconds so you can 'confuse' them for upwards of 30 seconds (or more).
But depending on how big a difference it makes it will change balance a bit. Perhaps players might get used to the fact that cons/miners are less vulnerable now at the docking/planting stage and thus tactics will change to make sure you catch them earlier.
As I said I am for smarter AI. Why should a miner slowly have to aim its nose into the bay (while a scout constantly smacks its nose around) when it can just side thrust in and be done with it.
What miners are forced to do now would be akin to extending a wire collar (that enemies can shoot through) around base entrances that players would have to line up with before entering. And they would have to enter with their nose perfectly perpendicular to the plane of the docking bay.
We are just used to being able to 'smack them around'.
What we are missing is how much impact this change really has on game play. Do they dock 50% faster now? or only 5% faster? To cons take 50% less time to align for a plant or 5% less time. I think it is going to be closer to the 5% side of things but I've only tested with a single scout.
Good point though, how often are miners killed at green doors? probably less than cons being killed while trying to plant.
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Why does Allegiance become a better game when miner D and con D is less important (because it's much harder to stop a miner/con from docking/building)? In what way does this make the game play more interesting? Do you think that today's Allegiance has too much focus on defense?Dogbones wrote:QUOTE (Dogbones @ Sep 30 2007, 03:00 AM) I think it boils down to. You should be killing miners/cons en route not relying on poor AI during what should be their last 5 or 10 seconds so you can 'confuse' them for upwards of 30 seconds (or more).
QUOTE As I said I am for smarter AI. Why should a miner slowly have to aim its nose into the bay (while a scout constantly smacks its nose around) when it can just side thrust in and be done with it.[/quote] I don't object to changing the high-level miner AI (eg. what sectors are safe to mine, when to head back to base). Today, good commanders micro-manage their miners to make them behave somewhat intelligently. If improved miner AI can reduce the need for that, then I'm all for it.
But I don't like changing how drones dock. If this is a step forward, then why do constructors have to "line up" at the rock anyways? Why couldn't they just go straight for the rock from the aleph, full speed, never stopping? Would Allegiance become more interesting if core authors increased the mass of all constructors (increasing their thrust too, so their speed and accel is unchanged) to make them impossible to ram?
QUOTE What we are missing is how much impact this change really has on game play. Do they dock 50% faster now? or only 5% faster? To cons take 50% less time to align for a plant or 5% less time. I think it is going to be closer to the 5% side of things but I've only tested with a single scout.[/quote]
Yes, it's not a huge change, but I think it's moving in the wrong direction.
Last edited by Ksero on Sun Sep 30, 2007 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ksero, if you wanted a "storyline" style explanation its that the constructor's "matter converter thingies" require a detailed scan to function(similar to why rips abort when using alephs)
miners shouldn't have to go through any unusual delay to dock because players can dock from any angle at any speed...
gameplay wise, to me, its that blocking miner docking is more of an exploit(from a "storyline" standpoint)... after all its next to impossible to stop a decent player from docking
miners shouldn't have to go through any unusual delay to dock because players can dock from any angle at any speed...
gameplay wise, to me, its that blocking miner docking is more of an exploit(from a "storyline" standpoint)... after all its next to impossible to stop a decent player from docking
Clay_Pigeon wrote:QUOTE(Clay_Pigeon @ May 13 2008, 08:24 PM) can i post a story about my cat flying an elf?